Entrevistas

Fernanda Trías: «¿Qué es ciencia ficción y qué no?»

Mucho antes de que la pandemia entrase en nuestras vidas, Fernanda Trías ya imaginaba mundos distópicos que parecían tan lejanos y extraños como improbables. Entonces el mundo cambió y «Mugre rosa» (Literatura Random House) se convirtió en una suerte de retrato mestizo de las amenazas del mundo contemporáneo. Cruce de realismo psicológico, ciencia ficción y horror, donde los conflictos familiares y personales conviven con el desastre ambiental y la escasez de alimentos, la novela ganó primero el premio Bartolomé Hidalgo 2020 en Uruguay y, pocas semanas después, el Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz. En esta entrevista exclusiva para LENGUA, la escritora uruguaya recorre las formas en que la catástrofe cambia nuestra manera de vivir y nuestras relaciones: un horizonte mucho más cercano e inquietante de lo que la vida previa a la pandemia nos había hecho creer.
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Entonces el mundo cambi\u00f3\u00a0y \u00abMugre rosa\u00bb (Literatura Random House) se convirti\u00f3 en una suerte de retrato mestizo de las amenazas del mundo contempor\u00e1neo. Cruce de realismo psicol\u00f3gico, ciencia ficci\u00f3n y horror, donde los conflictos familiares y personales conviven con el desastre ambiental y la escasez de alimentos, la novela gan\u00f3 primero el premio Bartolom\u00e9 Hidalgo 2020 en Uruguay y, pocas semanas despu\u00e9s, el Sor Juana In\u00e9s de la Cruz. 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<a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/2892-ramiro-sanchiz\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">RAMIRO SANCHIZ<\/span><\/a>\u00a0<span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.upf.edu\/es\/web\/humanitats\/entry\/-\/-\/15900\/404\/miquel-berga\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><br 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Sanchiz:<\/strong> Unos d\u00edas antes de que se anunciara que <em>Mugre rosa<\/em> obtuvo el premio Sor Juana In\u00e9s de la Cruz, la C\u00e1mara Uruguaya del Libro premi\u00f3 tu novela con el Bartolom\u00e9 Hidalgo 2020. Recuerdo que ese mismo d\u00eda vi en las redes la foto de nuestro editor, Juli\u00e1n Ubir\u00eda, sosteniendo el premio con una mano y su tel\u00e9fono celular con la otra, y que en la pantalla del aparato aparec\u00eda tu cara, en vivo, agradeciendo el premio. Estaban entonces la sonrisa de Juli\u00e1n y la tuya, en un mosaico tecnol\u00f3gico-virtual que me pareci\u00f3 sobrecogedor. Despu\u00e9s me puse a pensar en c\u00f3mo estar\u00edas viviendo este reconocimiento uruguayo, paralelo al otro, internacional, del Sor Juana. Porque desde hace a\u00f1os que no viv\u00eds en Uruguay, pese a que has seguido publicando con editoriales locales, como HUM, y no solo un libro, sino tres si mal no recuerdo (<em>La azotea<\/em> reeditado, <em>No so\u00f1ar\u00e1s flores<\/em> y <em>La ciudad invencible<\/em>). \u00bfC\u00f3mo sent\u00eds entonces esa distancia y esa conexi\u00f3n en relaci\u00f3n a este reconocimiento tan 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Tr\u00edas:<\/strong> Esa imagen de la foto se sinti\u00f3 como \u00abBienvenidos al futuro\u00bb. Me acuerdo de los flashes y de ver por la pantalla las grandes c\u00e1maras apuntando hacia mi imagen. Todos fotografiando un tel\u00e9fono. Aquel d\u00eda pens\u00e9 que, antes de la pandemia, no lo hubiera hecho. Y no porque tecnol\u00f3gicamente no se pudiera. Nos habr\u00eda parecido a todos un poco rid\u00edculo y hasta inviable dar un discurso de agradecimiento desde una pantallita de tel\u00e9fono sostenida por otra persona frente a una audiencia tan amplia como la que estaba presente ese d\u00eda. La virtualidad ya exist\u00eda, pero la pandemia la legitim\u00f3: ahora por ser virtual no es menos \u00abreal\u00bb. Para m\u00ed fue importante, a nivel simb\u00f3lico, haber recibido el Bartolom\u00e9 Hidalgo antes que el premio internacional Sor Juana, porque uno siempre se siente un poco triste cuando el resto del mundo ve cosas en tu esfuerzo escritural que en tu propio pa\u00eds aparentemente no ven. Yo me fui a Francia en 2005 y nunca dej\u00e9 de\u00a0esforzarme por mantener los lazos con Uruguay estrechos. Pero no es f\u00e1cil, sobre todo por la falta de recursos. Normalmente mis colegas de otros pa\u00edses que viven en el extranjero van todos los a\u00f1os a sus ferias nacionales, los invitan, los llevan, hay mucho m\u00e1s dinero para invertir. Sin embargo, en quince a\u00f1os que llevo fuera del pa\u00eds, fui una sola vez a la Feria del Libro en Uruguay, y fue un momento muy importante porque me permiti\u00f3 sentir que yo pertenec\u00eda all\u00ed, fue un momento de compartir con escritores uruguayos en las charlas y mesas, de intercambiar ideas, incluso de conocerlos en persona y acceder a sus libros. Parte de ese esfuerzo fue la decisi\u00f3n de publicar <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/literatura-contemporanea\/231681-libro-mugre-rosa-mapa-de-las-lenguas-9788439738923\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><em>Mugre rosa<\/em><\/a><\/span> primero en Uruguay, digamos como una \u00abprimicia\u00bb, antes de que saliera en el resto de los pa\u00edses de habla 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Me interesa mucho esto que dec\u00eds de la presencia de los escritores y sus obras en circuitos como las ferias del libro. Creo que en la medida en que aumenta el inter\u00e9s por parte de editoriales y colectivos editoriales no transnacionales de \u00abvisibilizarse\u00bb en una escala internacional, va produci\u00e9ndose una nueva intensidad de circulaci\u00f3n de autoras y autores en escenas que no son las locales, y esto trae aparejadas nuevas conexiones, reediciones, coediciones y qui\u00e9n sabe qu\u00e9 m\u00e1s iniciativas. Creo que esto acelera los procesos por los que emergen pautas en los sistemas de las literaturas, y pienso particularmente en lo que pueda estar pasando con la literatura latinoamericana, en sus nuevas configuraciones de g\u00e9neros y producciones de significados en relaci\u00f3n al presente o de construcci\u00f3n del futuro. Pero tambi\u00e9n, ahora que lo pienso, tus premios recientes coinciden en el tiempo con la traducci\u00f3n de tu novela <em>La azotea<\/em> al ingl\u00e9s, y las dos ediciones, en ingl\u00e9s y en espa\u00f1ol, que lanz\u00f3 Charco Press. As\u00ed que por un lado se consolida ese reconocimiento uruguayo del que hablabas y, por otro, sos proyectada a otra lengua y a otros tantos lectores. \u00bfC\u00f3mo viviste esto \u00faltimo?<\/p><p><strong>Fernanda Tr\u00edas:<\/strong> Antes, siempre que hablaba con amigos escritores de m\u00e1s trayectoria, que ten\u00edan libros traducidos a otros idiomas, me sorprend\u00eda el desapego que mostraban hacia esas traducciones. \u00bfNo estaban felices? Supongo que s\u00ed, pero ahora que me toc\u00f3 a m\u00ed estar en esa situaci\u00f3n, puedo entender lo extra\u00f1o que se siente. Si ya antes el libro no te pertenec\u00eda, en otro idioma se siente completamente ajeno. \u00bfQui\u00e9n escribi\u00f3 esto? Cuando le\u00ed la traducci\u00f3n de <em>La azotea<\/em> al ingl\u00e9s me parec\u00eda estar leyendo algo escrito por otra persona. Y s\u00ed, efectivamente est\u00e1 escrito por otra persona. A pesar de que particip\u00e9 muy activamente en la traducci\u00f3n, al punto de discutir con Annie McDermott temas como la sonoridad de tal o cual frase, el libro se convierte en otro. Como m\u00ednimo, la traducci\u00f3n literaria es una reescritura y un trabajo a cuatro manos. Y m\u00e1s grande ser\u00e1 el extra\u00f1amiento cuando empiecen a salir las traducciones en idiomas que ni siquiera puedo leer (en total, <em>La azotea<\/em> y <em>Mugre rosa<\/em> van a traducirse a siete idiomas). Ahora entiendo un poco mejor por qu\u00e9 Diamela Eltit dice que las traducciones son bienvenidas, pero que, en definitiva, ella escribe para los que hablamos espa\u00f1ol. A\u00fan est\u00e1 por verse c\u00f3mo se leen esas otras \u00abversiones\u00bb de mis libros desde culturas tan distintas. Yo creo que, al final, uno no sue\u00f1a con la traducci\u00f3n en s\u00ed, sino con que se genere la extra\u00f1a conexi\u00f3n lector-libro-autor. Bah, al menos a m\u00ed siempre me emociona hablar con muertos y con desconocidos a trav\u00e9s de sus libros.\u00a0<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"w5adxl1\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abUno no sue\u00f1a con la traducci\u00f3n en s\u00ed, sino con que se genere la extra\u00f1a conexi\u00f3n lector-libro-autor. Bah, al menos a m\u00ed siempre me emociona hablar con muertos y con desconocidos a trav\u00e9s de sus libros\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"ck0vbob\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Ramiro\u00a0<\/strong><strong>Sanchiz<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong> Es interesante lo que dec\u00eds del desapego. Recuerdo que, en los a\u00f1os noventa, muchos escritores de ciencia ficci\u00f3n rioplatenses trataban de escribir \u00aben neutro\u00bb para que fuese m\u00e1s f\u00e1cil traducirlos al ingl\u00e9s; pensaban, ingenuamente, que con eso de alguna manera atraer\u00edan traductores. Porque entonces apenas hab\u00eda maneras de publicar textos de ciencia ficci\u00f3n por fuera de los emprendimientos de los propios escritores devenidos editores (como revistas, fanzines y alguna antolog\u00eda autogestionada), textos que circulaban en circuitos de m\u00ednima visibilidad (por no hablar del \u00abprestigio\u00bb). Por tanto, la aspiraci\u00f3n de todos y todas era ser traducidos al ingl\u00e9s para publicar en las grandes revistas estadounidenses del g\u00e9nero, como la\u00a0<em>Asimov\u2019s<\/em>, pongamos. Ahora eso ha cambiado bastante; sin ir m\u00e1s lejos, vos acab\u00e1s de recibir dos premios sumamente prestigiosos por una novela de ciencia ficci\u00f3n. O, al menos, con ciencia ficci\u00f3n, por usar esa vieja distinci\u00f3n.<\/p><p><strong>Fernanda Tr\u00edas:<\/strong>\u00a0S\u00ed, es como preguntarse si uno pide \u00abun vaso con agua\u00bb o \u00abun vaso de agua\u00bb. Supongo que todos estos intentos por sacarle el cuerpo al g\u00e9nero y no decir \u00abciencia ficci\u00f3n\u00bb responden a un miedo de los autores a ser encasillados en algo que se ha considerado siempre como un g\u00e9nero menor, o a un miedo de los editores a que los lectores salgan huyendo incluso antes de abrir el libro. Si bien es cierto que estamos viviendo un momento de auge, en el sentido de que m\u00e1s escritores de \u00abrealismo\u00bb est\u00e1n escribiendo las llamadas \u00abficciones especulativas\u00bb (t\u00e9rmino que a vos no te gusta), y que m\u00e1s editoriales <em>mainstream<\/em>, no especializadas, est\u00e1n publicando estos libros (pienso en el reciente <em>La v\u00eda del futuro<\/em> de Edmundo Paz Sold\u00e1n en P\u00e1ginas de Espuma, o en <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/ciencia-ficcion\/5553-ebook-tejer-la-oscuridad\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><em>Tejer la oscuridad<\/em><\/span><\/a> de Emiliano Monge en Literatura Random House), no creo que eso se vea reflejado necesariamente en cantidad de lectores. Al menos no a\u00fan. Sigo pensando que muchos lectores son m\u00e1s bien reticentes y que dicen: \u00abYo no leo ciencia ficci\u00f3n\u00bb. De ah\u00ed que los escritores y los editores prefieran evitar el t\u00e9rmino. De hecho, creo que ni los autores ni los editores, excepto los que se han dedicado a pensar el g\u00e9nero, entendemos bien qu\u00e9 es ciencia ficci\u00f3n y qu\u00e9 no es ciencia ficci\u00f3n. Para los comunes mortales, ciencia ficci\u00f3n son naves espaciales y m\u00e1quinas de teletransportaci\u00f3n. La expresi\u00f3n \u00abcon ciencia ficci\u00f3n\u00bb parece querer decir que \u00abcon\u00bb ciencia ficci\u00f3n sigue siendo literario.\u00a0<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"qaq82ch\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abTodos los intentos por sacarle el cuerpo al g\u00e9nero y no decir \\\"ciencia ficci\u00f3n\\\" responden a un miedo de los autores a ser encasillados en algo que se ha considerado siempre como un g\u00e9nero menor, o a un miedo de los editores a que los lectores salgan huyendo incluso antes de abrir el libro\u00bb.\u00a0<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"gqpmimt\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Ramiro\u00a0<\/strong><strong>Sanchiz<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong> S\u00ed, estoy totalmente de acuerdo. Pero querr\u00eda primero detenerme un instante en el tema de la \u00abficci\u00f3n especulativa\u00bb. No es tanto que no me guste como que lo siento <em>dated<\/em>; creo que el t\u00e9rmino responde a un momento espec\u00edfico en la historia del g\u00e9nero, que es el de la expansi\u00f3n de la ciencia ficci\u00f3n a formas de escritura y pautas conceptuales m\u00e1s amplias y \u00abexperimentales\u00bb, algo que pas\u00f3 entre mediados de los cincuenta y fines de los sesenta. Ah\u00ed muchos escritores y escritoras que no quer\u00edan escribir en el molde m\u00e1s \u00abduro\u00bb o \u00abcient\u00edfico\u00bb de un Arthur Clarke o un Asimov se preguntaban por qu\u00e9 retener el t\u00e9rmino \u00abciencia\u00bb si no hab\u00eda en los relatos que escrib\u00edan el tipo de exposici\u00f3n cient\u00edfica que uno encuentra en, por poner un ejemplo, un cuento como \u00abPat\u00e9 de foie-gras\u00bb, de Asimov, donde se explica \u00abcient\u00edficamente\u00bb c\u00f3mo podr\u00eda ser posible una gallina de los huevos de oro. Pero lo que pas\u00f3, justamente, fue que ese cambio en la ciencia ficci\u00f3n convirti\u00f3 a la variante m\u00e1s cient\u00edfica del g\u00e9nero en un subg\u00e9nero bien definido, el de la \u00abciencia ficci\u00f3n dura\u00bb. Si ampliamos lo suficiente los contornos del g\u00e9nero, entonces no hace falta apelar a una designaci\u00f3n como \u00abficci\u00f3n especulativa\u00bb porque ya \u00abciencia ficci\u00f3n\u00bb abarca textos que no son necesariamente \u00abcient\u00edficos\u00bb. Quiz\u00e1 el problema de fondo tiene m\u00e1s que ver con lo dif\u00edcil que es definir o caracterizar (o delimitar) la ciencia ficci\u00f3n. Jonathan Lethem\u00a0escribi\u00f3 un art\u00edculo buen\u00edsimo sobre la idea de que la ciencia ficci\u00f3n deber\u00eda ser pensada no como un g\u00e9nero (porque es notoriamente m\u00e1s dif\u00edcil de definir de manera suficiente o satisfactoria que, pongamos, el policial o la novela hist\u00f3rica o las aventuras de piratas), sino como literatura a secas; a la vez, este pensamiento parece desdibujar la experiencia de escritores que siempre han trabajado desde adentro del g\u00e9nero, con militancia incluso. Pero volviendo a lo que dec\u00eds, est\u00e1 clar\u00edsimo el lugar de Edmundo Paz Sold\u00e1n, \u00bfno? Quiz\u00e1 podr\u00edamos pensarlo entre los primeros escritores latinoamericanos en el siglo XXI que, viniendo del <em>mainstream<\/em> o siendo le\u00eddos desde el <em>mainstream<\/em> (porque, en rigor, ya <em>El delirio de Turing<\/em> era una novela posciberpunk), empezaron ya no solo a \u00abincursionar\u00bb en el g\u00e9nero, sino a meterse de pleno en \u00e9l y con \u00e9l, como pasa en su novela <em>Iris<\/em>. Vos, en ese sentido, ven\u00eds desde un lugar tambi\u00e9n en principio ajeno a la ciencia ficci\u00f3n como g\u00e9nero y sus circuitos de circulaci\u00f3n, pero de pronto escrib\u00eds esta novela sobre contagios y mutaciones (entre otras cosas, claro) en un futuro\/presente indeterminado y hauntol\u00f3gico. \u00bfC\u00f3mo fue la decisi\u00f3n de meterse con esos temas?<\/p><p><strong>Fernanda Tr\u00edas:<\/strong> A m\u00ed lo que me interesa cada vez m\u00e1s es el mestizaje. Cuentos que no son cuentos, di\u00e1logos que son poemas, mezcla de g\u00e9neros. En el caso de <em>Mugre rosa<\/em>, intent\u00e9 tejer una historia de personajes, de conflictos afectivos, familiares y personales (lo de siempre), dentro de una trama mayor dist\u00f3pica con toda esta cat\u00e1strofe ambiental y la escasez de alimentos. Ten\u00eda miedo de quedarme a medio camino de ambas cosas y terminar desilusionando tanto a los que leen realismo psicol\u00f3gico como a los que leen ciencia ficci\u00f3n, pero si algo tengo claro es que hay que asumir riesgos: nunca me interes\u00f3 repetir una f\u00f3rmula. Yo sent\u00eda esa emoci\u00f3n que se siente cuando te est\u00e1s lanzando a algo desconocido, \u00bfviste?, como cuando vas a empezar a caer en la monta\u00f1a rusa. Para m\u00ed fue una experiencia espectacular construir un mundo entero con sus propias leyes, su geograf\u00eda y hasta su lenguaje. En todo momento quer\u00eda que el enrarecimiento fuera palpable y a la vez se sintiera muy cercano (aunque nunca imagin\u00e9 cu\u00e1n cercano iba a terminar sinti\u00e9ndose). Incluso que te hiciera dudar de si realmente era extra\u00f1o o era solo tuya esa sensaci\u00f3n. Entonces hay cositas en el lenguaje que trastoqu\u00e9 para generar ese extra\u00f1amiento, algunas de ellas solo reconocibles para un lector uruguayo. Por ejemplo, que en lugar de decir \u00ablos del interior\u00bb dijera \u00ablos de adentro\u00bb. A m\u00ed me encanta esta fluidez que est\u00e1 habiendo entre escritores, como vos los llam\u00e1s, <em>mainstream<\/em>\u00a0[<em>Risas<\/em>], anim\u00e1ndose a meter los pies en distintos g\u00e9neros, y a la inversa. Porque recordemos que vos has escrito un par de novelas <em>mainstream<\/em>\u00a0[<em>M\u00e1s risas<\/em>]. Ya mencionamos el caso de Paz Sold\u00e1n (pionero); tambi\u00e9n Yuri Herrera, que, de hecho, tiene una novela buen\u00edsima sobre una epidemia, <em>La transmigraci\u00f3n de los cuerpos<\/em>, de 2013.\u00a0<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"427x3hv\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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que me interesa cada vez m\u00e1s es el mestizaje. Cuentos que no son cuentos, di\u00e1logos que son poemas, mezcla de g\u00e9neros\u00bb.\u00a0<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"klskqvv\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Ramiro\u00a0<\/strong><strong>Sanchiz<\/strong><strong>:<\/strong>\u00a0[<em>Risas<\/em>] Eso de decir tanto <em>mainstream\u2026<\/em>\u00a0<em>Mainstream<\/em> es un poco la cosa beligerante de quienes salimos de la contracultura de los noventa, que quer\u00edamos ver el mundo arder, como el Joker. Pero me gusta lo que dec\u00eds sobre la hibridaci\u00f3n, porque ese es de hecho el proceso del g\u00e9nero; ning\u00fan g\u00e9nero se mantiene est\u00e1tico, porque sus lectores se orientan a potenciar aquello que les da un poco lo mismo (el g\u00e9nero en tanto lo puedan reconocer) y tambi\u00e9n algo distinto, lo \u00abnuevo\u00bb, es decir, un m\u00e1s all\u00e1, un vector o devenir. En la ciencia ficci\u00f3n noventera, de donde sal\u00ed yo, la actitud siempre era hipermodernista: hab\u00eda que estar al tanto de lo \u00faltimo, que para nosotros, en Uruguay y con un <em>delay<\/em> de diez a\u00f1os, era el ciberpunk. Ahora yo pensar\u00eda (y no solo a nivel latinoamericano) en h\u00edbridos de ciencia ficci\u00f3n y <em>weird<\/em>, lo que podr\u00edamos llamar la \u00abescuela colombiana\u00bb, con Luis Carlos Barrag\u00e1n, Karen Reyes y Hank T. Cohen a la cabeza. En cuanto a <em>Mugre rosa<\/em>, creo que justamente pone en evidencia que la ciencia ficci\u00f3n siempre tiene (o puede tener) eso de construir historias de conflictos afectivos, familiares, personales, y todo el realismo psicol\u00f3gico, pero dado en relaci\u00f3n a un fondo que no es de lo cotidiano, sino m\u00e1s bien uno especulativo. \u00bfQu\u00e9 sentir\u00edamos si de pronto una contaminaci\u00f3n t\u00f3xico-viral se apoderara de los fen\u00f3menos meteorol\u00f3gicos, de las aguas, de la flora? \u00bfC\u00f3mo manejar\u00edamos nuestros miedos, nuestra tendencia a aislarnos, nuestro impulso social? \u00bfC\u00f3mo cambiar\u00edan nuestras redes afectivas? Tu novela funciona en esa direcci\u00f3n, y por eso, para m\u00ed, es notoriamente ciencia ficci\u00f3n, en la l\u00ednea de textos como la formidable <em>334<\/em>, de Thomas Disch. Pero a la vez hay momentos en que al leerla se siente que todo va en direcci\u00f3n al horror. \u00bfEso lo pensaste? Por ejemplo, si introduc\u00eds la idea de un ni\u00f1o que no puede saciarse ni, por tanto, parar de comer, el lector acostumbrado al <em>body-horror<\/em> de Cronenberg o a Clive Barker (por poner dos ejemplos cualesquiera) lo primero que va a pensar es: \u00abO se come a la protagonista o se come a s\u00ed mismo (o ambas cosas)\u00bb; canibalismo y autofagia. Pero, claro, creo que <em>Mugre rosa<\/em> pone un freno ah\u00ed: est\u00e1 sugerida esa idea, pero no la llev\u00e1s a cabo, porque te manten\u00e9s desde los l\u00edmites del horror hasta ac\u00e1. \u00a1Ahora se me ocurre que a lo mejor puedo reescribir tu novela <em>La azotea<\/em> con can\u00edbales! Pero eso, lo que vos hac\u00e9s en <em>Mugre rosa<\/em>, me parece, aporta a la idea de lo h\u00edbrido y es, para m\u00ed, otro de los puntos fuertes de la novela.<\/p><p><strong>Fernanda Tr\u00edas:<\/strong> S\u00ed, lo pens\u00e9. De hecho hab\u00eda una escena que luego saqu\u00e9 en la que, en medio de uno de esos ataques de ira de Mauro, \u00e9l se clavaba un tenedor en la mano. Y tambi\u00e9n me imagin\u00e9 que \u00e9l podr\u00eda llegar a comerse un pu\u00f1ado de esas algas t\u00f3xicas del r\u00edo. Pero no me interesaba llevar la novela por ah\u00ed, aunque s\u00ed est\u00e1 bueno que permanezca como una inquietud en el subtexto. Para m\u00ed siempre se trata de ir buscando ese l\u00edmite en que la violencia est\u00e1 impl\u00edcita o latente pero no se termina de desencadenar. Me parece incluso m\u00e1s inquietante que cuando leo escenas muy violentas y sangrientas, que por momentos hasta me parecen morbosas. En todo caso, no es mi po\u00e9tica. Pienso que si la violencia est\u00e1 contenida es m\u00e1s interesante lo que provoca en el lector. Ya hay mucha violencia expl\u00edcita en las pel\u00edculas, entonces se vuelve un poco clich\u00e9. El horror que genera <em>Distancia de rescate<\/em>, ese es el que me gusta. Al final toda la novela parece una historia de fantasmas, de susurros. Pero esas preguntas que vos hac\u00e9s ac\u00e1 son justamente las que me interesaba pensar: c\u00f3mo cambiar\u00edamos en ese contexto de cat\u00e1strofe nuestra manera de vivir, nuestras relaciones afectivas y sociales, e incluso pensar tambi\u00e9n qu\u00e9 cosas permanecer\u00edan iguales. Porque, desgraciadamente, hay cosas que nunca cambian.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"rzkvhoh\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>OTROS CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><\/p><ul style=\\\"list-style-type: circle;\\\"><li><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/escritoras-latinoamericanas\/escritoras-latinoamericanas\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">Escritoras latinoamericanas: Algo est\u00e1 pasando<\/a><\/span><\/li><li><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/Cristina-Rivera-Garza-Selva-Almada-Liliana-Rivera-Garza\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">Cristina Rivera Garza por Selva Almada: Liliana a nuestro lado<\/span><\/a><\/li><li><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/fernanda-melchor-y-su-viaje-al-paradais-escribir-de-lo-que-a-una-le-interesa-es-suficientemente-feminista\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">Fernanda Melchor y su viaje al <em>P\u00e1radais<\/em>: \u00abEscribir de lo que a una le interesa es suficientemente 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15 minutos

Fernanda Trías. Crédito: Getty.

Ramiro Sanchiz: Unos días antes de que se anunciara que Mugre rosa obtuvo el premio Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, la Cámara Uruguaya del Libro premió tu novela con el Bartolomé Hidalgo 2020. Recuerdo que ese mismo día vi en las redes la foto de nuestro editor, Julián Ubiría, sosteniendo el premio con una mano y su teléfono celular con la otra, y que en la pantalla del aparato aparecía tu cara, en vivo, agradeciendo el premio. Estaban entonces la sonrisa de Julián y la tuya, en un mosaico tecnológico-virtual que me pareció sobrecogedor. Después me puse a pensar en cómo estarías viviendo este reconocimiento uruguayo, paralelo al otro, internacional, del Sor Juana. Porque desde hace años que no vivís en Uruguay, pese a que has seguido publicando con editoriales locales, como HUM, y no solo un libro, sino tres si mal no recuerdo (La azotea reeditado, No soñarás flores y La ciudad invencible). ¿Cómo sentís entonces esa distancia y esa conexión en relación a este reconocimiento tan lindo?

Fernanda Trías: Esa imagen de la foto se sintió como «Bienvenidos al futuro». Me acuerdo de los flashes y de ver por la pantalla las grandes cámaras apuntando hacia mi imagen. Todos fotografiando un teléfono. Aquel día pensé que, antes de la pandemia, no lo hubiera hecho. Y no porque tecnológicamente no se pudiera. Nos habría parecido a todos un poco ridículo y hasta inviable dar un discurso de agradecimiento desde una pantallita de teléfono sostenida por otra persona frente a una audiencia tan amplia como la que estaba presente ese día. La virtualidad ya existía, pero la pandemia la legitimó: ahora por ser virtual no es menos «real». Para mí fue importante, a nivel simbólico, haber recibido el Bartolomé Hidalgo antes que el premio internacional Sor Juana, porque uno siempre se siente un poco triste cuando el resto del mundo ve cosas en tu esfuerzo escritural que en tu propio país aparentemente no ven. Yo me fui a Francia en 2005 y nunca dejé de esforzarme por mantener los lazos con Uruguay estrechos. Pero no es fácil, sobre todo por la falta de recursos. Normalmente mis colegas de otros países que viven en el extranjero van todos los años a sus ferias nacionales, los invitan, los llevan, hay mucho más dinero para invertir. Sin embargo, en quince años que llevo fuera del país, fui una sola vez a la Feria del Libro en Uruguay, y fue un momento muy importante porque me permitió sentir que yo pertenecía allí, fue un momento de compartir con escritores uruguayos en las charlas y mesas, de intercambiar ideas, incluso de conocerlos en persona y acceder a sus libros. Parte de ese esfuerzo fue la decisión de publicar Mugre rosa primero en Uruguay, digamos como una «primicia», antes de que saliera en el resto de los países de habla hispana.

Ramiro Sanchiz: Me interesa mucho esto que decís de la presencia de los escritores y sus obras en circuitos como las ferias del libro. Creo que en la medida en que aumenta el interés por parte de editoriales y colectivos editoriales no transnacionales de «visibilizarse» en una escala internacional, va produciéndose una nueva intensidad de circulación de autoras y autores en escenas que no son las locales, y esto trae aparejadas nuevas conexiones, reediciones, coediciones y quién sabe qué más iniciativas. Creo que esto acelera los procesos por los que emergen pautas en los sistemas de las literaturas, y pienso particularmente en lo que pueda estar pasando con la literatura latinoamericana, en sus nuevas configuraciones de géneros y producciones de significados en relación al presente o de construcción del futuro. Pero también, ahora que lo pienso, tus premios recientes coinciden en el tiempo con la traducción de tu novela La azotea al inglés, y las dos ediciones, en inglés y en español, que lanzó Charco Press. Así que por un lado se consolida ese reconocimiento uruguayo del que hablabas y, por otro, sos proyectada a otra lengua y a otros tantos lectores. ¿Cómo viviste esto último?

Fernanda Trías: Antes, siempre que hablaba con amigos escritores de más trayectoria, que tenían libros traducidos a otros idiomas, me sorprendía el desapego que mostraban hacia esas traducciones. ¿No estaban felices? Supongo que sí, pero ahora que me tocó a mí estar en esa situación, puedo entender lo extraño que se siente. Si ya antes el libro no te pertenecía, en otro idioma se siente completamente ajeno. ¿Quién escribió esto? Cuando leí la traducción de La azotea al inglés me parecía estar leyendo algo escrito por otra persona. Y sí, efectivamente está escrito por otra persona. A pesar de que participé muy activamente en la traducción, al punto de discutir con Annie McDermott temas como la sonoridad de tal o cual frase, el libro se convierte en otro. Como mínimo, la traducción literaria es una reescritura y un trabajo a cuatro manos. Y más grande será el extrañamiento cuando empiecen a salir las traducciones en idiomas que ni siquiera puedo leer (en total, La azotea y Mugre rosa van a traducirse a siete idiomas). Ahora entiendo un poco mejor por qué Diamela Eltit dice que las traducciones son bienvenidas, pero que, en definitiva, ella escribe para los que hablamos español. Aún está por verse cómo se leen esas otras «versiones» de mis libros desde culturas tan distintas. Yo creo que, al final, uno no sueña con la traducción en sí, sino con que se genere la extraña conexión lector-libro-autor. Bah, al menos a mí siempre me emociona hablar con muertos y con desconocidos a través de sus libros. 

«Uno no sueña con la traducción en sí, sino con que se genere la extraña conexión lector-libro-autor. Bah, al menos a mí siempre me emociona hablar con muertos y con desconocidos a través de sus libros».

Ramiro Sanchiz: Es interesante lo que decís del desapego. Recuerdo que, en los años noventa, muchos escritores de ciencia ficción rioplatenses trataban de escribir «en neutro» para que fuese más fácil traducirlos al inglés; pensaban, ingenuamente, que con eso de alguna manera atraerían traductores. Porque entonces apenas había maneras de publicar textos de ciencia ficción por fuera de los emprendimientos de los propios escritores devenidos editores (como revistas, fanzines y alguna antología autogestionada), textos que circulaban en circuitos de mínima visibilidad (por no hablar del «prestigio»). Por tanto, la aspiración de todos y todas era ser traducidos al inglés para publicar en las grandes revistas estadounidenses del género, como la Asimov’s, pongamos. Ahora eso ha cambiado bastante; sin ir más lejos, vos acabás de recibir dos premios sumamente prestigiosos por una novela de ciencia ficción. O, al menos, con ciencia ficción, por usar esa vieja distinción.

Fernanda Trías: Sí, es como preguntarse si uno pide «un vaso con agua» o «un vaso de agua». Supongo que todos estos intentos por sacarle el cuerpo al género y no decir «ciencia ficción» responden a un miedo de los autores a ser encasillados en algo que se ha considerado siempre como un género menor, o a un miedo de los editores a que los lectores salgan huyendo incluso antes de abrir el libro. Si bien es cierto que estamos viviendo un momento de auge, en el sentido de que más escritores de «realismo» están escribiendo las llamadas «ficciones especulativas» (término que a vos no te gusta), y que más editoriales mainstream, no especializadas, están publicando estos libros (pienso en el reciente La vía del futuro de Edmundo Paz Soldán en Páginas de Espuma, o en Tejer la oscuridad de Emiliano Monge en Literatura Random House), no creo que eso se vea reflejado necesariamente en cantidad de lectores. Al menos no aún. Sigo pensando que muchos lectores son más bien reticentes y que dicen: «Yo no leo ciencia ficción». De ahí que los escritores y los editores prefieran evitar el término. De hecho, creo que ni los autores ni los editores, excepto los que se han dedicado a pensar el género, entendemos bien qué es ciencia ficción y qué no es ciencia ficción. Para los comunes mortales, ciencia ficción son naves espaciales y máquinas de teletransportación. La expresión «con ciencia ficción» parece querer decir que «con» ciencia ficción sigue siendo literario. 

«Todos los intentos por sacarle el cuerpo al género y no decir "ciencia ficción" responden a un miedo de los autores a ser encasillados en algo que se ha considerado siempre como un género menor, o a un miedo de los editores a que los lectores salgan huyendo incluso antes de abrir el libro». 

Ramiro Sanchiz: Sí, estoy totalmente de acuerdo. Pero querría primero detenerme un instante en el tema de la «ficción especulativa». No es tanto que no me guste como que lo siento dated; creo que el término responde a un momento específico en la historia del género, que es el de la expansión de la ciencia ficción a formas de escritura y pautas conceptuales más amplias y «experimentales», algo que pasó entre mediados de los cincuenta y fines de los sesenta. Ahí muchos escritores y escritoras que no querían escribir en el molde más «duro» o «científico» de un Arthur Clarke o un Asimov se preguntaban por qué retener el término «ciencia» si no había en los relatos que escribían el tipo de exposición científica que uno encuentra en, por poner un ejemplo, un cuento como «Paté de foie-gras», de Asimov, donde se explica «científicamente» cómo podría ser posible una gallina de los huevos de oro. Pero lo que pasó, justamente, fue que ese cambio en la ciencia ficción convirtió a la variante más científica del género en un subgénero bien definido, el de la «ciencia ficción dura». Si ampliamos lo suficiente los contornos del género, entonces no hace falta apelar a una designación como «ficción especulativa» porque ya «ciencia ficción» abarca textos que no son necesariamente «científicos». Quizá el problema de fondo tiene más que ver con lo difícil que es definir o caracterizar (o delimitar) la ciencia ficción. Jonathan Lethem escribió un artículo buenísimo sobre la idea de que la ciencia ficción debería ser pensada no como un género (porque es notoriamente más difícil de definir de manera suficiente o satisfactoria que, pongamos, el policial o la novela histórica o las aventuras de piratas), sino como literatura a secas; a la vez, este pensamiento parece desdibujar la experiencia de escritores que siempre han trabajado desde adentro del género, con militancia incluso. Pero volviendo a lo que decís, está clarísimo el lugar de Edmundo Paz Soldán, ¿no? Quizá podríamos pensarlo entre los primeros escritores latinoamericanos en el siglo XXI que, viniendo del mainstream o siendo leídos desde el mainstream (porque, en rigor, ya El delirio de Turing era una novela posciberpunk), empezaron ya no solo a «incursionar» en el género, sino a meterse de pleno en él y con él, como pasa en su novela Iris. Vos, en ese sentido, venís desde un lugar también en principio ajeno a la ciencia ficción como género y sus circuitos de circulación, pero de pronto escribís esta novela sobre contagios y mutaciones (entre otras cosas, claro) en un futuro/presente indeterminado y hauntológico. ¿Cómo fue la decisión de meterse con esos temas?

Fernanda Trías: A mí lo que me interesa cada vez más es el mestizaje. Cuentos que no son cuentos, diálogos que son poemas, mezcla de géneros. En el caso de Mugre rosa, intenté tejer una historia de personajes, de conflictos afectivos, familiares y personales (lo de siempre), dentro de una trama mayor distópica con toda esta catástrofe ambiental y la escasez de alimentos. Tenía miedo de quedarme a medio camino de ambas cosas y terminar desilusionando tanto a los que leen realismo psicológico como a los que leen ciencia ficción, pero si algo tengo claro es que hay que asumir riesgos: nunca me interesó repetir una fórmula. Yo sentía esa emoción que se siente cuando te estás lanzando a algo desconocido, ¿viste?, como cuando vas a empezar a caer en la montaña rusa. Para mí fue una experiencia espectacular construir un mundo entero con sus propias leyes, su geografía y hasta su lenguaje. En todo momento quería que el enrarecimiento fuera palpable y a la vez se sintiera muy cercano (aunque nunca imaginé cuán cercano iba a terminar sintiéndose). Incluso que te hiciera dudar de si realmente era extraño o era solo tuya esa sensación. Entonces hay cositas en el lenguaje que trastoqué para generar ese extrañamiento, algunas de ellas solo reconocibles para un lector uruguayo. Por ejemplo, que en lugar de decir «los del interior» dijera «los de adentro». A mí me encanta esta fluidez que está habiendo entre escritores, como vos los llamás, mainstream [Risas], animándose a meter los pies en distintos géneros, y a la inversa. Porque recordemos que vos has escrito un par de novelas mainstream [Más risas]. Ya mencionamos el caso de Paz Soldán (pionero); también Yuri Herrera, que, de hecho, tiene una novela buenísima sobre una epidemia, La transmigración de los cuerpos, de 2013. 

«Lo que me interesa cada vez más es el mestizaje. Cuentos que no son cuentos, diálogos que son poemas, mezcla de géneros». 

Ramiro Sanchiz: [Risas] Eso de decir tanto mainstream… Mainstream es un poco la cosa beligerante de quienes salimos de la contracultura de los noventa, que queríamos ver el mundo arder, como el Joker. Pero me gusta lo que decís sobre la hibridación, porque ese es de hecho el proceso del género; ningún género se mantiene estático, porque sus lectores se orientan a potenciar aquello que les da un poco lo mismo (el género en tanto lo puedan reconocer) y también algo distinto, lo «nuevo», es decir, un más allá, un vector o devenir. En la ciencia ficción noventera, de donde salí yo, la actitud siempre era hipermodernista: había que estar al tanto de lo último, que para nosotros, en Uruguay y con un delay de diez años, era el ciberpunk. Ahora yo pensaría (y no solo a nivel latinoamericano) en híbridos de ciencia ficción y weird, lo que podríamos llamar la «escuela colombiana», con Luis Carlos Barragán, Karen Reyes y Hank T. Cohen a la cabeza. En cuanto a Mugre rosa, creo que justamente pone en evidencia que la ciencia ficción siempre tiene (o puede tener) eso de construir historias de conflictos afectivos, familiares, personales, y todo el realismo psicológico, pero dado en relación a un fondo que no es de lo cotidiano, sino más bien uno especulativo. ¿Qué sentiríamos si de pronto una contaminación tóxico-viral se apoderara de los fenómenos meteorológicos, de las aguas, de la flora? ¿Cómo manejaríamos nuestros miedos, nuestra tendencia a aislarnos, nuestro impulso social? ¿Cómo cambiarían nuestras redes afectivas? Tu novela funciona en esa dirección, y por eso, para mí, es notoriamente ciencia ficción, en la línea de textos como la formidable 334, de Thomas Disch. Pero a la vez hay momentos en que al leerla se siente que todo va en dirección al horror. ¿Eso lo pensaste? Por ejemplo, si introducís la idea de un niño que no puede saciarse ni, por tanto, parar de comer, el lector acostumbrado al body-horror de Cronenberg o a Clive Barker (por poner dos ejemplos cualesquiera) lo primero que va a pensar es: «O se come a la protagonista o se come a sí mismo (o ambas cosas)»; canibalismo y autofagia. Pero, claro, creo que Mugre rosa pone un freno ahí: está sugerida esa idea, pero no la llevás a cabo, porque te mantenés desde los límites del horror hasta acá. ¡Ahora se me ocurre que a lo mejor puedo reescribir tu novela La azotea con caníbales! Pero eso, lo que vos hacés en Mugre rosa, me parece, aporta a la idea de lo híbrido y es, para mí, otro de los puntos fuertes de la novela.

Fernanda Trías: Sí, lo pensé. De hecho había una escena que luego saqué en la que, en medio de uno de esos ataques de ira de Mauro, él se clavaba un tenedor en la mano. Y también me imaginé que él podría llegar a comerse un puñado de esas algas tóxicas del río. Pero no me interesaba llevar la novela por ahí, aunque sí está bueno que permanezca como una inquietud en el subtexto. Para mí siempre se trata de ir buscando ese límite en que la violencia está implícita o latente pero no se termina de desencadenar. Me parece incluso más inquietante que cuando leo escenas muy violentas y sangrientas, que por momentos hasta me parecen morbosas. En todo caso, no es mi poética. Pienso que si la violencia está contenida es más interesante lo que provoca en el lector. Ya hay mucha violencia explícita en las películas, entonces se vuelve un poco cliché. El horror que genera Distancia de rescate, ese es el que me gusta. Al final toda la novela parece una historia de fantasmas, de susurros. Pero esas preguntas que vos hacés acá son justamente las que me interesaba pensar: cómo cambiaríamos en ese contexto de catástrofe nuestra manera de vivir, nuestras relaciones afectivas y sociales, e incluso pensar también qué cosas permanecerían iguales. Porque, desgraciadamente, hay cosas que nunca cambian.

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