Entrevistas

Jon Lee Anderson: «Debemos seguir peleando por un periodismo digno y honesto»

Hay vidas extraordinarias y otras que superan sencillamente los más exagerados ditirambos. Como la del periodista y maestro de corresponsales californiano Jon Lee Anderson, quien ha fatigado junglas y desiertos, conocido la intimidad de dictadores y asesinos y ha vuelto para contarlo. El heredero natural de Ryszard Kapuściński recopila ahora sus mejores piezas en «He decidido declararme marxista» (Debate), dos volúmenes antológicos de unas crónicas que ofrecen una panorámica esencial, no sólo trágica, de nuestra época.

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Como la del periodista y maestro de corresponsales californiano Jon Lee Anderson, quien ha fatigado junglas y desiertos, conocido la intimidad de dictadores y asesinos y ha vuelto para contarlo. El heredero natural de Ryszard Kapu\u015bci\u0144ski recopila ahora sus mejores piezas en \u00abHe decidido declararme marxista\u00bb (Debate), dos vol\u00famenes antol\u00f3gicos de unas cr\u00f3nicas que ofrecen una panor\u00e1mica esencial, no s\u00f3lo tr\u00e1gica, de nuestra 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antolog\u00eda de textos puede ser una manera como otra cualquiera de resumir una vida que nunca podr\u00e1, sin embargo, agotarla. \u00bfC\u00f3mo hacerlo cuando has trabajado durante 44 a\u00f1os en algunos de los lugares m\u00e1s peligrosos del planeta al encuentro de guerras, dictadores y asesinos? 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Olvid\u00e9 lo que significa esa palabra.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: Algo as\u00ed como que ya no te la crees, que eres esc\u00e9ptico respecto a tu propia tradici\u00f3n.<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> Le agradezco mucho a Rieff que haya escrito el pr\u00f3logo. Incluso su esfuerzo en definirme pol\u00edticamente. Llevo teniendo con mi amigo toda clase de disputas cari\u00f1osas desde hace mucho tiempo, como con su teor\u00eda de que el pasado hay que olvidarlo, algo con lo que no estoy de acuerdo. Ser\u00e9 claro: yo nunca he pertenecido a una izquierda ortodoxa, no he pertenecido a ning\u00fan partido ni he sido fiel creyente en ning\u00fan dogma como el marxismo. Ten\u00eda trece a\u00f1os cuando escrib\u00ed en mi diario eso de \u00abhe decidido declararme marxista\u00bb. \u00a113 a\u00f1os! Tiempo despu\u00e9s, cuando ya lo hab\u00eda olvidado, encontr\u00e9 esas notas olvidadas y me puse a pensar en el muchacho que fui. 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\u00bfC\u00f3mo se expurgan cinco d\u00e9cadas de cr\u00f3nicas de <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/es.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Jon_Lee_Anderson\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">una carrera como la tuya<\/a><\/span>? \u00bfAntolog\u00edas como estas debe hacerlas el propio autor o es mejor que se la haga alguien ajeno?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> Todo comenz\u00f3 en los d\u00edas del covid por una sugerencia de <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/kamala-harris-maria-ramirez-entrevista-miguel-aguilar\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Miguel Aguilar, mi editor<\/a><\/span>. Cuando le respond\u00ed que me parec\u00eda bien, me dijo: \u00abPerfecto, pues t\u00fa resuelves c\u00f3mo organizarlo\u00bb. Ja, ja, ja. Pero luego me asign\u00f3 a los brillantes Roberta Gerhart y Aldo Per\u00e1n para conversar y trabajar conmigo y el trabajo sigui\u00f3 adelante con vaivenes. Optamos por un orden tem\u00e1tico y no tanto cronol\u00f3gico y al final la selecci\u00f3n era tan extensa que no qued\u00f3 m\u00e1s remedio que publicar dos tomos. El lector se encontrar\u00e1 piezas y perfiles que fueron c\u00e9lebres en su d\u00eda, pero tambi\u00e9n otros que no lo fueron tanto y espero que le sorprendan. Y siempre sobre los dos rieles de inter\u00e9s en mi vida: la violencia pol\u00edtica y el ejercicio del poder.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: En el primer volumen re\u00fanes la guerra y la pol\u00edtica. Tristemente, como sueles se\u00f1alar, \u00bflos tiranos siempre son m\u00e1s fascinantes que sus v\u00edctimas?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> Lo he dicho en alguna ocasi\u00f3n y la gente tiende a malinterpretarlo. No es que sienta desd\u00e9n hacia las v\u00edctimas, por supuesto, pero son los primeros a los que uno suele tener acceso, a la mujer viuda y a su marido muerto en el suelo, los ni\u00f1os en el campamento de refugiados... Suena cruel, pero no aprendes mucho de ellos, la verdad. Muchos periodistas se quedan ah\u00ed, en las v\u00edctimas, pocos llegan, por diferentes razones, a los victimarios. No es f\u00e1cil. Yo desde el principio me esforc\u00e9 <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/arturo-perez-reverte-cuando-fuimos-honrados-mercenarios-diario-pueblo\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">como periodista<\/a><\/span> por llegar a los perpetradores. Quer\u00eda entender, desde su propio punto de vista, por qu\u00e9 ejerc\u00edan esa violencia.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"gy45xai\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abSuena cruel, pero no aprendes mucho de ellas [las v\u00edctimas]. Muchos periodistas se quedan ah\u00ed, pocos llegan a los victimarios. No es f\u00e1cil. Yo desde el principio me esforc\u00e9 por llegar a los perpetradores\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"7ncln96\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfY c\u00f3mo lograbas resistirte a la fascinaci\u00f3n por esas figuras?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> No siempre fascina ese tipo de gente, ojo. A veces son simples temerarios. En mis pesquisas siempre he buscado entender su psicolog\u00eda y su concepci\u00f3n de la justicia. Saber c\u00f3mo ven a aquellos que mueren por su ejercicio del poder. Y transmitirlo a un p\u00fablico que lo desconoce. Evitando siempre la propaganda. De hecho, he conocido a gente terrible y muy suspicaz que no me gustaba nada y me he puesto en muchas ocasiones en un grave peligro.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfTe sientes capaz de enumerar rasgos generales de este tipo de encarnaciones, de trazar una suerte de retrato robot?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> Los m\u00e1s peligrosos son aquellos que son capaces de objetivar a las otras personas en aras de sus propias convicciones, ya sean religiosas, ideol\u00f3gicas o simplemente vengativas. Hay gente que puede empezar a matar de esa manera sin necesidad de sufrir ning\u00fan tipo de patolog\u00eda mental. Como, se me ocurre, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/es.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Velupillai_Prabhakaran\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Velupillai Prabhakaran<\/a><\/span>, de los tigres tamiles, un tipo muy sanguinario que obligaba a sus combatientes a ingerir c\u00e1psulas de cianuro si eran capturados. Pero tambi\u00e9n hay otros, de cariz humanista, como el <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/es.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Subcomandante_Marcos\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Subcomandante Marcos<\/a><\/span> que, sin dejar de ser un guerrillero armado, intentaba siempre ejercer la m\u00ednima violencia posible. Es verdad que eso es muy 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El corresponsal de guerra que informa desde alguno de los lugares m\u00e1s peligros del mundo jug\u00e1ndose la vida, \u00bfpor qu\u00e9 lo hace exactamente?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> Por curiosidad. Ja, ja, ja. Parece banal, pero es as\u00ed. Desde muy temprano quise entender los gatillos de los disparaderos de la historia, especialmente la universalidad de la violencia. Aunque no lo parezca, los que nos dedicamos a esto, hacemos un c\u00e1lculo del riesgo. He conocido periodistas mucho m\u00e1s locos que yo y tambi\u00e9n otros m\u00e1s convencionales. Yo siempre quise estar <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/arturo-perez-reverte-y-la-guerra\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">muy cerca del frente para ver lo que ocurr\u00eda all\u00ed<\/a><\/span>. No buscaba qu\u00e9 pas\u00f3 sino por qu\u00e9 ocurri\u00f3. Pero le asegur\u00f3 que me gusta mucho m\u00e1s el mundo natural que la guerra. Donde yo soy feliz es en la selva, no en una trinchera. Mi musa es la naturaleza.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: Es terrible comprobar en tu libro c\u00f3mo hoy, muchos a\u00f1os despu\u00e9s, seguimos enfangados en las mismas guerras que t\u00fa cubr\u00edas hace tantos a\u00f1os. <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/comic\/la-guerra-de-gaza-de-joe-sacco-primeras-paginas\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Como en Gaza<\/a><\/span>. <\/strong><b>\u00ab<\/b><strong>Aquellos que tiran piedras: los chicos de Breij<\/strong><b>\u00bb<\/b><strong>.<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> La guerra es una constante de la naturaleza humana. Justamente por eso me interesa tanto. <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/gaza-israel-hamas-guerra-dave-eggers\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Conozco bien Gaza<\/a><\/span>. La guerra del Medio Oriente es tan existencial para ambos pueblos que, despu\u00e9s de tanta muerte, no estamos m\u00e1s cerca de resolverla que antes.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"pdtpr4v\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abYo siempre quise estar muy cerca del frente para ver lo que ocurr\u00eda all\u00ed. No buscaba qu\u00e9 pas\u00f3 sino por qu\u00e9 ocurri\u00f3. Pero le asegur\u00f3 que me gusta mucho m\u00e1s el mundo natural que la guerra. Donde yo soy feliz es en la selva, no en una trinchera\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"10c9zwt\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>LENGUA: Eres el autor de la biograf\u00eda can\u00f3nica del Che Guevara, uno de los personajes m\u00e1s ic\u00f3nicos de la historia reciente. \u00bfQu\u00e9 piensas hoy acerca de aquel trabajo?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> Es parte de mi vida y me complace la aceptaci\u00f3n que tuvo. Creo que acert\u00e9 en mi enfoque. Hay que entender que aquella biograf\u00eda fue el resultado de a\u00f1os de trabajo sobre la guerrilla y de convivencia con guerrilleros de todo el mundo durante cuatro a\u00f1os. Luego otros cinco a a\u00f1os a escribir <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"http:\/\/www.anagrama-ed.es\/libro\/compactos\/che-guevara\/9788433973870\/CM_530\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">el libro sobre el Che<\/a><\/span>. Toda una d\u00e9cada de trabajo. El Che pregonaba que el guerrillero que est\u00e1 dispuesto a matar y morir por una idea es el hombre definitivo, su destilado m\u00e1s perfecto de lo humano. Aunque pueda ser interpretado de mil formas, para alabarlo o demonizarlo, yo intent\u00e9 mostrarlo con todas sus verrugas y en la coyuntura de su tiempo. Es un tipo de ser humano que surge muy de vez en cuando, a veces para bien y otras para mal. Yo s\u00e9 que existe.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfT\u00fa tambi\u00e9n eres pesimista con el estado actual de la profesi\u00f3n period\u00edstica? Esos corresponsales que tienen que pedirles dineros a sus padres para irse a una zona de guerra y luego tienen que contarlo en X porque no les pagan las cr\u00f3nicas\u2026<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Jon Lee Anderson:<\/strong> Mira, s\u00ed, ahora mismo todo parece color de hormiga. Debemos compartir espacio con miles de diapositivas narcisistas como X o TikTok. Ha colapsado el modelo econ\u00f3mico de los medios y gran parte del periodismo se vuelve hacia supuestas estrellas como Tucker Carlson o <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/es.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Joe_Rogan\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Joe Rogan<\/a><\/span>. Es preocupante y problem\u00e1tico. Pero no desisto de decirle una y otra vez a quienes buscan practicar un periodismo digno y honesto, que deben pelear por ello. No s\u00e9 qu\u00e9 exactamente, pero debemos hacer m\u00e1s. No tengamos 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class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><strong>OTROS\u00a0CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/geoff-dyer-el-increible-escritor-mutante\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Geoff Dyer, el incre\u00edble escritor mutante<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/gaza-israel-hamas-guerra-dave-eggers\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Vivir en Gaza, una c\u00e1rcel con tres carceleros: Israel, Egipto y Ham\u00e1s<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/arturo-perez-reverte-cuando-fuimos-honrados-mercenarios-diario-pueblo\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Arturo P\u00e9rez-Reverte: cuando fuimos honrados mercenarios<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/arturo-perez-reverte-y-la-guerra\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Arturo P\u00e9rez-Reverte y la guerra<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/comic\/keum-suk-gendry-kim-la-espera-hierba\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Keum Suk Gendry-Kim: cuando el horror llama a la 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15 minutos

Jon Lee Anderson. Crédito: Canal de YouTube de Penguin Libros España.

Una antología de textos puede ser una manera como otra cualquiera de resumir una vida que nunca podrá, sin embargo, agotarla. ¿Cómo hacerlo cuando has trabajado durante 44 años en algunos de los lugares más peligrosos del planeta al encuentro de guerras, dictadores y asesinos? Podemos entender así que el periodista Jon Lee Anderson (California, EEUU, 1957) haya optado por tomarse un poco a broma el título de los dos volúmenes de la selección de sus crónicas, incorporando una anotación que escribió en su diario con solo trece años: He decidido declararme marxista (ambos publicados por Debate, el primero en noviembre de 2024 y el segundo en enero de 2025).

Prologadas por su amigo David Rieff, estas páginas de uno de los grandes testigos del pasado reciente, centradas en las guerras y el poder, son apabullantes: la caída de Bagdad, las experiencias guerrilleras por Oriente Próximo, África, Asia y América Latina, un brillante diccionario bélico esencial o los perfiles deslumbrante, fruto del conocimiento directo, de Fidel Castro, Hugo Chávez o Gadafi: «Igual que cuando decidí hacerme marxista a los trece años, llevé diarios de esos y otros viajes tempranos en los que buscaba lo emocionante y lo desconocido. Muestran cómo terminé siendo quién soy, un cronista de los tiempos que ha tenido la suerte de ver y vivir en este fascinante mundo nuestro».

  • ¡En oferta!
  • -5%
Testigo de excepción de los acontecimientos cruciales de finales del siglo XX y principios del XXI, reunimos en este primer volumen las crónicas fundamentales de Jon Lee Anderson.
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  • ¡En oferta!
  • -5%
Reunimos en este segundo volumen los mejores textos de Jon Lee Anderson, testigo de excepción de los acontecimientos cruciales de las últimas décadas y uno de los referentes mundiales en la escritura de perfiles periodísticos.
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LENGUA: No estoy seguro de si las palabras del gran pesimista Rieff en el prólogo a tu libro, cuando asegura que siempre logras evitar «ser devorado por el corazón de las tinieblas» son un elogio o un tibio reproche. Cuando echas la vista atrás y observas tu larga carrera, ¿aún te tienta el optimismo?

Jon Lee Anderson: ¡Ni yo lo sé! Ja, ja, ja. David es como es, ya sabes. Pero no lo tomé como un reproche. Yo soy realista, intento ver las cosas como son, sin optimismo ni pesimismo, y encuentro así la manera de seguir viviendo. Más allá de todos los horrores del mundo, hay mucha gente que es capaz de pensar y vivir con cierta felicidad.

LENGUA: ¿Hace falta ser de una madera especial para ejercer un trabajo tan peculiar como el tuyo a lo largo de cuatro o cinco décadas?

Jon Lee Anderson: Ni soy introspectivo ni habitual de la terapia. Reconozco que he llevado una vida quizás inverosímil. Me crie en una familia muy nómada, y multicultural, pues tenía hermanos adoptivos de otras razas, con la que recorrí el mundo. Viví en ocho países distintos antes de cumplir 18 años: Taiwán, Corea del Sur, Colombia, Indonesia, Liberia, Honduras, España e Inglaterra. Padre aventurero, madre escritora de libros juveniles. Nuestros credos eran la lectura y la creatividad. Todo ello me dio la formación básica para convertirme en la persona que he sido después. Nunca podré ser ciudadano de un sólo país.

«Yo soy realista, intento ver las cosas como son, sin optimismo ni pesimismo, y encuentro así la manera de seguir viviendo. Más allá de todos los horrores del mundo, hay mucha gente que es capaz de pensar y vivir con cierta felicidad».

LENGUA: En referencia al título tan llamativo de esta antología, una nota del diario del Jon Lee Anderson adolescente, y siguiendo con Rieff, este asegura no tener clara después de tanto tiempo tu filiación política, aunque se aventura a decir que has pasado de una izquierda ortodoxa a una izquierda escarmentada. ¿Coincides?

Jon Lee Anderson: ¿Cómo entiendes tú lo de escarmentada? Olvidé lo que significa esa palabra.

LENGUA: Algo así como que ya no te la crees, que eres escéptico respecto a tu propia tradición.

Jon Lee Anderson: Le agradezco mucho a Rieff que haya escrito el prólogo. Incluso su esfuerzo en definirme políticamente. Llevo teniendo con mi amigo toda clase de disputas cariñosas desde hace mucho tiempo, como con su teoría de que el pasado hay que olvidarlo, algo con lo que no estoy de acuerdo. Seré claro: yo nunca he pertenecido a una izquierda ortodoxa, no he pertenecido a ningún partido ni he sido fiel creyente en ningún dogma como el marxismo. Tenía trece años cuando escribí en mi diario eso de «he decidido declararme marxista». ¡13 años! Tiempo después, cuando ya lo había olvidado, encontré esas notas olvidadas y me puse a pensar en el muchacho que fui. No hacía mucho del fin de la II Guerra Mundial y tenían lugar entonces las grandes luchas de descolonización en África. En aquellas gestas, los luchadores más valientes parecían ser los que se autodenominaban marxistas. ¿Cómo no admirar a esa gente? ¡Debía ser marxista! Y ahí se quedó, nunca llegó a mayores.

Jon Lee Anderson. Crédito: David Monteleone.

Jon Lee Anderson. Crédito: David Monteleone.

LENGUA: ¿Cómo se expurgan cinco décadas de crónicas de una carrera como la tuya? ¿Antologías como estas debe hacerlas el propio autor o es mejor que se la haga alguien ajeno?

Jon Lee Anderson: Todo comenzó en los días del covid por una sugerencia de Miguel Aguilar, mi editor. Cuando le respondí que me parecía bien, me dijo: «Perfecto, pues tú resuelves cómo organizarlo». Ja, ja, ja. Pero luego me asignó a los brillantes Roberta Gerhart y Aldo Perán para conversar y trabajar conmigo y el trabajo siguió adelante con vaivenes. Optamos por un orden temático y no tanto cronológico y al final la selección era tan extensa que no quedó más remedio que publicar dos tomos. El lector se encontrará piezas y perfiles que fueron célebres en su día, pero también otros que no lo fueron tanto y espero que le sorprendan. Y siempre sobre los dos rieles de interés en mi vida: la violencia política y el ejercicio del poder.

LENGUA: En el primer volumen reúnes la guerra y la política. Tristemente, como sueles señalar, ¿los tiranos siempre son más fascinantes que sus víctimas?

Jon Lee Anderson: Lo he dicho en alguna ocasión y la gente tiende a malinterpretarlo. No es que sienta desdén hacia las víctimas, por supuesto, pero son los primeros a los que uno suele tener acceso, a la mujer viuda y a su marido muerto en el suelo, los niños en el campamento de refugiados... Suena cruel, pero no aprendes mucho de ellos, la verdad. Muchos periodistas se quedan ahí, en las víctimas, pocos llegan, por diferentes razones, a los victimarios. No es fácil. Yo desde el principio me esforcé como periodista por llegar a los perpetradores. Quería entender, desde su propio punto de vista, por qué ejercían esa violencia.

«Suena cruel, pero no aprendes mucho de ellas [las víctimas]. Muchos periodistas se quedan ahí, pocos llegan a los victimarios. No es fácil. Yo desde el principio me esforcé por llegar a los perpetradores».

LENGUA: ¿Y cómo lograbas resistirte a la fascinación por esas figuras?

Jon Lee Anderson: No siempre fascina ese tipo de gente, ojo. A veces son simples temerarios. En mis pesquisas siempre he buscado entender su psicología y su concepción de la justicia. Saber cómo ven a aquellos que mueren por su ejercicio del poder. Y transmitirlo a un público que lo desconoce. Evitando siempre la propaganda. De hecho, he conocido a gente terrible y muy suspicaz que no me gustaba nada y me he puesto en muchas ocasiones en un grave peligro.

LENGUA: ¿Te sientes capaz de enumerar rasgos generales de este tipo de encarnaciones, de trazar una suerte de retrato robot?

Jon Lee Anderson: Los más peligrosos son aquellos que son capaces de objetivar a las otras personas en aras de sus propias convicciones, ya sean religiosas, ideológicas o simplemente vengativas. Hay gente que puede empezar a matar de esa manera sin necesidad de sufrir ningún tipo de patología mental. Como, se me ocurre, Velupillai Prabhakaran, de los tigres tamiles, un tipo muy sanguinario que obligaba a sus combatientes a ingerir cápsulas de cianuro si eran capturados. Pero también hay otros, de cariz humanista, como el Subcomandante Marcos que, sin dejar de ser un guerrillero armado, intentaba siempre ejercer la mínima violencia posible. Es verdad que eso es muy excepcional.

Jon Lee Anderson en Milán en abril de 1997. Crédito: Getty Images.

Jon Lee Anderson en Milán en abril de 1997. Crédito: Getty Images.

LENGUA: El corresponsal de guerra que informa desde alguno de los lugares más peligros del mundo jugándose la vida, ¿por qué lo hace exactamente?

Jon Lee Anderson: Por curiosidad. Ja, ja, ja. Parece banal, pero es así. Desde muy temprano quise entender los gatillos de los disparaderos de la historia, especialmente la universalidad de la violencia. Aunque no lo parezca, los que nos dedicamos a esto, hacemos un cálculo del riesgo. He conocido periodistas mucho más locos que yo y también otros más convencionales. Yo siempre quise estar muy cerca del frente para ver lo que ocurría allí. No buscaba qué pasó sino por qué ocurrió. Pero le aseguró que me gusta mucho más el mundo natural que la guerra. Donde yo soy feliz es en la selva, no en una trinchera. Mi musa es la naturaleza.

LENGUA: Es terrible comprobar en tu libro cómo hoy, muchos años después, seguimos enfangados en las mismas guerras que tú cubrías hace tantos años. Como en Gaza. «Aquellos que tiran piedras: los chicos de Breij».

Jon Lee Anderson: La guerra es una constante de la naturaleza humana. Justamente por eso me interesa tanto. Conozco bien Gaza. La guerra del Medio Oriente es tan existencial para ambos pueblos que, después de tanta muerte, no estamos más cerca de resolverla que antes.

«Yo siempre quise estar muy cerca del frente para ver lo que ocurría allí. No buscaba qué pasó sino por qué ocurrió. Pero le aseguró que me gusta mucho más el mundo natural que la guerra. Donde yo soy feliz es en la selva, no en una trinchera».

LENGUA: Eres el autor de la biografía canónica del Che Guevara, uno de los personajes más icónicos de la historia reciente. ¿Qué piensas hoy acerca de aquel trabajo?

Jon Lee Anderson: Es parte de mi vida y me complace la aceptación que tuvo. Creo que acerté en mi enfoque. Hay que entender que aquella biografía fue el resultado de años de trabajo sobre la guerrilla y de convivencia con guerrilleros de todo el mundo durante cuatro años. Luego otros cinco a años a escribir el libro sobre el Che. Toda una década de trabajo. El Che pregonaba que el guerrillero que está dispuesto a matar y morir por una idea es el hombre definitivo, su destilado más perfecto de lo humano. Aunque pueda ser interpretado de mil formas, para alabarlo o demonizarlo, yo intenté mostrarlo con todas sus verrugas y en la coyuntura de su tiempo. Es un tipo de ser humano que surge muy de vez en cuando, a veces para bien y otras para mal. Yo sé que existe.

LENGUA: ¿Tú también eres pesimista con el estado actual de la profesión periodística? Esos corresponsales que tienen que pedirles dineros a sus padres para irse a una zona de guerra y luego tienen que contarlo en X porque no les pagan las crónicas…

Jon Lee Anderson: Mira, sí, ahora mismo todo parece color de hormiga. Debemos compartir espacio con miles de diapositivas narcisistas como X o TikTok. Ha colapsado el modelo económico de los medios y gran parte del periodismo se vuelve hacia supuestas estrellas como Tucker Carlson o Joe Rogan. Es preocupante y problemático. Pero no desisto de decirle una y otra vez a quienes buscan practicar un periodismo digno y honesto, que deben pelear por ello. No sé qué exactamente, pero debemos hacer más. No tengamos miedo.

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