Entrevistas

Mónica Bernabé y Afganistán a 20 años del 11-S: en el cementerio de los imperios

Mónica Bernabé viajó a Kabul por primera vez cuando los talibanes estaban en el poder. Volvió luego de la intervención norteamericana. Y finalmente vivió allí casi una década. Autora del lúcido, revelador y descarnado «Afganistán. Crónica de una ficción», esta periodista española es una de las personas más cualificadas para ofrecer una mirada sobre la compleja y devastadora realidad de Afganistán a 20 años del 11-S y a pocas semanas del regreso de los talibanes al poder. En este diálogo con Florencia Grieco (también periodista en territorios al límite y autora de «En Corea del Norte. Viaje a la última dinastía comunista»), Bernabé habla de la realidad impenetrable de ese país conocido como «el cementerio de los imperios», un lugar donde fracasaron Alejandro Magno, los británicos, los soviéticos y -ahora- los estadounidenses.

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Volvi\u00f3 luego de la intervenci\u00f3n norteamericana. Y finalmente vivi\u00f3 all\u00ed casi una d\u00e9cada. Autora del l\u00facido, revelador y descarnado \u00abAfganist\u00e1n. Cr\u00f3nica de una ficci\u00f3n\u00bb, esta periodista espa\u00f1ola es una de las personas m\u00e1s cualificadas para ofrecer una mirada sobre la compleja y devastadora realidad de Afganist\u00e1n a 20 a\u00f1os del 11-S y a pocas semanas del regreso de los talibanes al poder. En este di\u00e1logo con Florencia Grieco (tambi\u00e9n periodista en territorios al l\u00edmite y autora de \u00abEn Corea del Norte. 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style=\\\"text-align: right;\\\">21 de noviembre de 2001. Una mujer vestida con un burka tradicional camina con ni\u00f1os mientras huyen de la aldea de Khanabad en el momento en que aviones de combate estadounidenses arrojan bombas sobre las posiciones de los talibanes cerca de la aldea y en la ciudad de Kunduz. Por entonces, Kunduz estaba sitiada por la Alianza del Norte, que rodea a aproximadamente 5.000 \u00abextranjeros\u00bb talibanes: combatientes voluntarios \u00e1rabes, chechenos y paquistan\u00edes que han jurado luchar hasta la muerte. Foto de Sion Touhig (Getty 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style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/9505-florencia-grieco\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">FLORENCIA GRIECO<\/a><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.upf.edu\/es\/web\/humanitats\/entry\/-\/-\/15900\/404\/miquel-berga\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><br 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a\u00f1os de guerra.\u00a0<br \/>Ochocientos mil millones de d\u00f3lares.\u00a0<br \/>Ciento treinta mil militares extranjeros. <br \/>Tres millones de desplazados.\u00a0<br \/>Dos millones y medio de refugiados. <br \/>Ciento sesenta mil afganos muertos. <br \/><br \/>Siete a\u00f1os y ocho meses en los que M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9 fue la \u00fanica periodista espa\u00f1ola viviendo y trabajando de forma permanente en <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/economia-politica-y-actualidad\/18804-afganistan\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">Afganist\u00e1n<\/a><\/span>.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p style=\\\"text-align: center;\\\">***<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><strong><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/corea-del-norte-florencia-grieco\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">Florencia Grieco<\/a><\/span>: Viajaste por primera vez a Afganist\u00e1n en el a\u00f1o 2000, cuando los talibanes a\u00fan estaban en el poder, y viviste all\u00ed desde 2006, cuando la presencia militar empez\u00f3 a crecer hasta llegar al pico en 2011. \u00bfC\u00f3mo ha sido la relaci\u00f3n de la poblaci\u00f3n afgana con los extranjeros en estos veinti\u00fan 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style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/5269-monica-bernabe\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9<\/a><\/span>:<\/strong> La primera vez que estuve en Afganist\u00e1n fue un viaje de apenas cuatro d\u00edas con otras dos mujeres espa\u00f1olas y una activista afgana que nos hizo de gu\u00eda y nos llev\u00f3 a visitar varias escuelas clandestinas para ni\u00f1as. La presencia de extranjeros era m\u00ednima y los periodistas ten\u00edan muy dif\u00edcil acceso al pa\u00eds en aquel momento, y entonces nos recibieron como si fu\u00e9ramos las salvadoras, como si nosotras pudi\u00e9semos explicarle al mundo lo que estaba pasando en Afganist\u00e1n. Cuando volv\u00ed a principios de 2002, despu\u00e9s de la intervenci\u00f3n militar de Estados Unidos y apenas tres o cuatro meses despu\u00e9s de que cayera el r\u00e9gimen talib\u00e1n, a las fuerzas extranjeras las recibieron de un modo parecido. Recuerdo que muchos afganos paraban a los militares extranjeros y les daban la mano para agradecerles que estuvieran all\u00ed, y esta sensaci\u00f3n de gratitud fue creciendo hasta que ocurri\u00f3 algo que, de a poco, fue cambiando aquella mirada. Por una parte, Estados Unidos inici\u00f3 la intervenci\u00f3n militar en Afganist\u00e1n para hacer caer al r\u00e9gimen talib\u00e1n luego de\u00a0<span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/historia\/36244-la-torre-elevada-9788499891231\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">los atentados del 11 de septiembre<\/a><\/span> y en ese proceso se ali\u00f3 con las facciones islamistas radicales, los denominados muyahidines, que hab\u00edan arrasado el pa\u00eds a principios de los a\u00f1os noventa, antes del r\u00e9gimen talib\u00e1n, y que luego se reunieron en la Alianza del Norte para combatirlo. Son facciones formadas por criminales de guerra conocidos y odiados por la poblaci\u00f3n afgana. Una vez que estos muyahidines ayudaron a Estados Unidos a hacer caer el r\u00e9gimen talib\u00e1n, pidieron como recompensa formar parte del nuevo gobierno afgano y la comunidad internacional consider\u00f3 que esto era un mal menor, de modo que aquellos criminales de guerra pasaron a formar parte del gobierno y se quedaron con el control de los ministerios m\u00e1s importantes del Ejecutivo. Entonces se vio que los afganos no acababan de entender la situaci\u00f3n: \u00abEsta gente ha venido a ayudarnos, pero han metido en el poder a\u00a0las personas que han bombardeado Kabul y han destruido el 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paralelo, los talibanes empezaron a coger cada vez m\u00e1s fuerza, porque hay que recordar que, los primeros a\u00f1os, las tropas internacionales estuvieron concentradas en Kabul y no salieron de la capital hasta 2004. En esos tiempos, el resto del pa\u00eds estuvo librado a su suerte y, por supuesto, la insurgencia talib\u00e1n empez\u00f3 a rearmarse y a tomar fuerza muy r\u00e1pidamente hasta estar en condiciones de realizar atentados en la capital. La agitaci\u00f3n que produjeron el primer atentado suicida en Kabul en 2004 y el primer secuestro de extranjeros un a\u00f1o despu\u00e9s hizo que los extranjeros empezaran a encerrarse cada vez m\u00e1s. Cuando me establec\u00ed de forma permanente en Afganist\u00e1n en 2006, no se ve\u00eda ni a un extranjero caminando por la calle; todos se mov\u00edan en coche, aunque fueran a un sitio a cien metros. En aquel clima surgi\u00f3 una vida paralela: supermercados para extranjeros, que oficialmente no eran exclusivos para ellos, pero dado que los precios eran prohibitivos, en la pr\u00e1ctica solo ellos pod\u00edan acceder; restaurantes para extranjeros, tambi\u00e9n con precios occidentales y personal de seguridad en la puerta. Esto es lo que ve\u00eda la poblaci\u00f3n afgana: miles de extranjeros que hab\u00edan llegado a su pa\u00eds, con los que casi no ten\u00edan relaci\u00f3n, que se mov\u00edan en coche por la capital, que ten\u00edan su vida social aparte y hasta ten\u00edan sus propios generadores y, por tanto, ten\u00edan electricidad, algo de lo que el resto carec\u00eda. Es decir: no vivieron nunca la realidad que viv\u00eda la poblaci\u00f3n afgana. Todo esto fue creando distancia y cierta rabia hacia los extranjeros, y con los a\u00f1os tambi\u00e9n se fue instalando la idea de que tarde o temprano se ir\u00edan del pa\u00eds y que, por tanto, hab\u00eda que aprovechar el momento. Entonces Afganist\u00e1n se volvi\u00f3 un s\u00e1lvese quien pueda.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"6w27ejw\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abCuando me establec\u00ed de forma permanente en Afganist\u00e1n en 2006, no se ve\u00eda ni a un extranjero caminando por la calle; todos se mov\u00edan en coche, aunque fueran a un sitio a cien metros. En aquel clima surgi\u00f3 una vida paralela: supermercados para extranjeros, que oficialmente no eran exclusivos para ellos, pero dado que los precios eran prohibitivos, en la pr\u00e1ctica solo ellos pod\u00edan acceder; restaurantes para extranjeros, tambi\u00e9n con precios occidentales y personal de seguridad en la puerta\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"udr94m0\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Florencia Grieco: \u00bfLa situaci\u00f3n de las mujeres afganas cambi\u00f3 en algo con la presencia internacional?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9:<\/strong> La sociedad afgana es profundamente machista y conservadora, de esto no hay ning\u00fan tipo de duda, y son machistas tanto los hombres como las mujeres. Con los muyahidines, con los talibanes, incluso con la presencia internacional, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/cl\/biografias\/95037-cartas-a-mis-hijas-la-historia-de-la-parlamentaria-afgana-que-ha-desafiado-a-los-talibanes\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">la situaci\u00f3n para las mujeres ha sido terrible<\/a><\/span>. Es una sociedad en la que los hombres deciden completamente sobre el destino de las mujeres, sobre lo que pueden hacer y lo que no, tanto que si le preguntas a una mujer en Afganist\u00e1n cu\u00e1les son sus problemas, lo \u00faltimo que dir\u00e1 es el burka. Esta es la mentalidad, y creo que se debe a que Afganist\u00e1n no ha tenido posibilidad de evolucionar. Me causa gracia cuando se juzga a la sociedad afgana por c\u00f3mo es: \u00bfacaso alguien entiende qu\u00e9 significa vivir cuarenta a\u00f1os en guerra, con toda la destrucci\u00f3n que eso supone? No significa \u00fanicamente que caigan bombas o haya enfrentamientos armados. Significa que el sistema sanitario es un aut\u00e9ntico desastre. Significa que no hay electricidad. Significa que los ni\u00f1os empiezan la escolarizaci\u00f3n a los siete a\u00f1os y con suerte van tres horas al d\u00eda a clase. Significa que m\u00e1s de la mitad de la poblaci\u00f3n afgana es analfabeta y que entre las mujeres la cifra llega al 70 por ciento. Y no solo han vivido en guerra durante d\u00e9cadas, sino tambi\u00e9n bajo reg\u00edmenes totalmente radicales que han utilizado la religi\u00f3n a su favor y han mantenido al pa\u00eds en aislamiento total. Esto es lo que ha ocurrido antes con los talibanes: durante cinco a\u00f1os Afganist\u00e1n estuvo completamente aislado. En esta situaci\u00f3n, \u00bfalguien cree que realmente puede haber una evoluci\u00f3n social y un cambio de mentalidad? Queremos que las mujeres y los hombres afganos de repente sean progresistas y modernos, pero no podemos esperar que la sociedad cambie si no cambia la situaci\u00f3n de fondo.<\/p><p><strong>Florencia Grieco: \u00bfHay alguna diferencia entre los talibanes que han tomado Kabul ahora y aquellos que tuvieron el poder hasta 2001?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9:<\/strong> Los talibanes no han cambiado para nada, siguen siendo los mismos de siempre. Son los mismos que tomaron el poder a mediados de los noventa, solo que ahora est\u00e1n m\u00e1s equipados, tienen m\u00e1s experiencia y son m\u00e1s listos porque claramente han aprendido a utilizar los medios de comunicaci\u00f3n a su favor. Hay que recordar que, durante el r\u00e9gimen talib\u00e1n, hasta 2001, todos los medios estaban prohibidos: estaba prohibida la televisi\u00f3n \u2014de hecho, hicieron desaparecer todos los televisores que hab\u00eda\u2014; estaban prohibidas las fotograf\u00edas; estaba prohibida la m\u00fasica. Ahora, en cambio, los talibanes est\u00e1n utilizando la televisi\u00f3n y las redes sociales para hacerse propaganda e intentar dar una imagen de cierta moderaci\u00f3n y, con eso, intentar ganarse el favor de la comunidad internacional para ser reconocidos como gobierno leg\u00edtimo de Afganist\u00e1n, pero su mentalidad y su ideolog\u00eda no han cambiado absolutamente en nada, y cuando el foco se desv\u00ede de Afganist\u00e1n, har\u00e1n lo que quieran. Estoy en contacto permanente con personas en Afganist\u00e1n y las mujeres no cesan de repetir que no creamos nada de lo que los talibanes venden al mundo. Puede ser anecd\u00f3tico, pero si cuando entraron en Kabul lo primero que hicieron fue tapar todas las im\u00e1genes de mujeres en las calles, \u00bfalguien puede creer realmente que van a permitir que las mujeres trabajen fuera de la casa o que van a reconocerles alg\u00fan tipo de participaci\u00f3n en la vida p\u00fablica? Es una fantas\u00eda.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"64hznvu\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abLos talibanes no han cambiado para nada, siguen siendo los mismos de siempre. Son los mismos que tomaron el poder a mediados de los noventa, solo que ahora est\u00e1n m\u00e1s equipados, tienen m\u00e1s experiencia y son m\u00e1s listos porque claramente han aprendido a utilizar los medios de comunicaci\u00f3n a su favor\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"em6w2c3\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Florencia Grieco: La salida militar revivi\u00f3 la idea de que Afganist\u00e1n es una realidad impenetrable, \u00abel cementerio de los imperios\u00bb donde fracasaron Alejandro Magno, los brit\u00e1nicos, los sovi\u00e9ticos y, ahora, los estadounidenses. \u00bfQu\u00e9 explicaci\u00f3n encontr\u00e1s en este caso?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9:<\/strong> La verdad es que no ha habido ninguna intenci\u00f3n de la comunidad internacional de poner en orden la situaci\u00f3n en Afganist\u00e1n, y voy a poner un ejemplo que es anecd\u00f3tico, pero da a entender bien la profundidad de los problemas que no se han resuelto en estos veinte a\u00f1os. En Afganist\u00e1n no hay un registro de nacimientos. Cuando nace una criatura, no es obligatorio anotarla: hay gente que lo hace y gente que no. Entonces, si le preguntas a un afgano cu\u00e1ntos a\u00f1os tiene, la mayor\u00eda no lo sabe con exactitud porque no est\u00e1n registrados y, por tanto, no tienen una fecha reconocida para documentar qu\u00e9 d\u00eda han nacido. Puede que tenga veintitr\u00e9s a\u00f1os, o veinticinco, o quiz\u00e1 veinte. Y si no se registran las personas que nacen y viven en un pa\u00eds, \u00bfqu\u00e9 ocurre cuando alguien muere o es asesinado? \u00bfQu\u00e9 ocurre cuando un hombre mata a su mujer en su casa? Si no hay ni siquiera un registro de que esa mujer existe, a lo mejor se enterar\u00e1 el vecino, pero aquella muerte no figurar\u00e1 en ninguna parte. As\u00ed es todo: un desastre lo mires por donde lo mires, desde los detalles m\u00e1s anecd\u00f3ticos hasta el cuadro general. Y este es el problema principal en Afganist\u00e1n: no se hizo nada bien. La comunidad internacional ni siquiera intent\u00f3 poner orden en algo tan b\u00e1sico y tan necesario como un maldito registro de nacimientos, y esta imposibilidad de hacer funcionar la administraci\u00f3n afgana es solo una parte. Ahora, si no hicieron bien cosas tan peque\u00f1as, si no se preocuparon por que funcionaran cosas tan b\u00e1sicas, \u00bfc\u00f3mo iba a haber un gobierno efectivo? \u00bfC\u00f3mo esperamos que algo pudiese salir bien en 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style=\\\"text-align: right;\\\">Kabul, 8 de septiembre de 2021. Rahila Talash, de veintisiete a\u00f1os, llora mientras se une a otros manifestantes que marchan por el vecindario de Dashti-E-Barchi un d\u00eda despu\u00e9s de que los talibanes anunciasen su nuevo gobierno interino exclusivamente masculino, sin representaci\u00f3n femenina ni de grupos \u00e9tnicos minoritarios. Foto de Marcus Yam (Getty 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Grieco: \u00bfA qu\u00e9 se deben estas fallas? Porque han sido veinte a\u00f1os, no dos.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9:<\/strong> No lo s\u00e9, no me cabe en la cabeza que la comunidad internacional haya ido con esta mentalidad a Afganist\u00e1n. En 2011, cuando la presencia internacional ya llevaba diez a\u00f1os, se inici\u00f3 un programa acelerado de alfabetizaci\u00f3n de la polic\u00eda afgana porque se dieron cuenta entonces de que los polic\u00edas afganos no sab\u00edan leer ni escribir y que no pod\u00edan ni siquiera revisar documentaci\u00f3n b\u00e1sica. Yo me preguntaba entonces: \u00bfno os dais cuenta de que est\u00e1is intentando vender una imagen de Afganist\u00e1n y de promover unos proyectos que no cuadran en nada con la situaci\u00f3n real del pa\u00eds? Yo siempre he sido periodista de profesi\u00f3n, pero durante diecis\u00e9is a\u00f1os presid\u00ed la Asociaci\u00f3n por los Derechos Humanos en Afganist\u00e1n, y cada vez que \u00edbamos a pedir subvenciones a la Uni\u00f3n Europea o a instituciones internacionales, nos encontr\u00e1bamos con que los proyectos que financiaban eran para empoderar a la mujer afgana y promover su participaci\u00f3n en la vida pol\u00edtica. \u00bfDe qu\u00e9 empoderamiento y participaci\u00f3n en la vida pol\u00edtica hablan si basta con ir a una maternidad en Afganist\u00e1n y ver c\u00f3mo tratan a las mujeres cuando van a parir? Ni una silla les dan para que al menos esperen sentadas. A las mujeres las tratan como animales, y son otras mujeres las que las tratan de ese modo porque en las maternidades no pueden entrar hombres. \u00bfPor qu\u00e9 no empezaron por all\u00ed en lugar de hablar de empoderar y fomentar la participaci\u00f3n de las mujeres? Es que no conoc\u00edan la realidad ni por asomo. El discurso de la comunidad internacional no ten\u00eda nada que ver con la realidad del pa\u00eds.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"6037w7f\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abDurante diecis\u00e9is a\u00f1os presid\u00ed la Asociaci\u00f3n por los Derechos Humanos en Afganist\u00e1n, y cada vez que \u00edbamos a pedir subvenciones a la Uni\u00f3n Europea o a instituciones internacionales, nos encontr\u00e1bamos con que los proyectos que financiaban eran para empoderar a la mujer afgana y promover su participaci\u00f3n en la vida pol\u00edtica. \u00bfDe qu\u00e9 empoderamiento y participaci\u00f3n en la vida pol\u00edtica hablan si basta con ir a una maternidad en Afganist\u00e1n y ver c\u00f3mo tratan a las mujeres cuando van a parir? Ni una silla les dan para que al menos esperen sentadas\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"na593zs\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Florencia Grieco: En tu libro,\u00a0<em><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/economia-politica-y-actualidad\/18804-afganistan\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">Afganist\u00e1n. Cr\u00f3nica de una ficci\u00f3n<\/span>,<\/a> <\/em>plante\u00e1s eso: la comunidad internacional cre\u00f3 un relato acerca de Afganist\u00e1n \u2014que hab\u00eda democracia, que las mujeres ten\u00edan derechos plenos, que el ej\u00e9rcito afgano pod\u00eda detener el avance de los talibanes\u2014, pero nada de aquello ten\u00eda nada que ver con la realidad. Ahora se ha dicho que los talibanes lograron tomar el poder casi sin resistencia porque las fuerzas afganas no quisieron pelear. Esta fue la explicaci\u00f3n de Estados Unidos. \u00bfCu\u00e1nto de esto tambi\u00e9n es ficci\u00f3n?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9:<\/strong> Todo. Es mentira que las fuerzas afganas no quisieron pelear. El problema es que, aun despu\u00e9s de veinte a\u00f1os, las fuerzas afganas no estaban preparadas ni ten\u00edan capacidad de abastecerse sin el apoyo permanente de Estados Unidos. Se nos vendi\u00f3 la ficci\u00f3n de que el ej\u00e9rcito afgano pod\u00eda valerse por s\u00ed mismo cuando claramente no era as\u00ed. Creo que Estados Unidos ha tenido una gran responsabilidad en esto porque era el pa\u00eds encargado de formar a este ej\u00e9rcito y ellos, m\u00e1s que nadie, deb\u00edan saber si estaba preparado para quedarse solo. Estados Unidos dec\u00eda que s\u00ed. La prueba ha sido que no. En un momento incluso decidieron financiar una serie de milicias porque no hab\u00eda suficientes fuerzas de seguridad afganas. Las entrenaron, les dieron uniformes, y esas milicias pasaron a formar parte, de alg\u00fan modo, de las fuerzas de seguridad afganas. Es decir, en vez de reducir el poder de esos grupos, los potenciaron. Cuando las tropas internacionales comenzaron la retirada gradual de Afganist\u00e1n, le pregunt\u00e9 al representante de la OTAN qu\u00e9 iban a hacer con estas milicias que quedar\u00edan fuera de control y su respuesta fue: \u00abEsto es Afganist\u00e1n\u00bb. Es decir, nosotros nos vamos y ya ver\u00e1n aqu\u00ed qu\u00e9 hacen con ellas. Creamos un monstruo, y estando en el pa\u00eds era evidente que aquello no iba a ninguna parte. Era como levantar un edificio con los pies de barro.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"14\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"44\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"q60aeg9\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abSe nos vendi\u00f3 la ficci\u00f3n de que el ej\u00e9rcito afgano pod\u00eda valerse por s\u00ed mismo cuando claramente no era as\u00ed. Creo que Estados Unidos ha tenido una gran responsabilidad en esto porque era el pa\u00eds encargado de formar a este ej\u00e9rcito y ellos, m\u00e1s que nadie, deb\u00edan saber si estaba preparado para quedarse solo. Estados Unidos dec\u00eda que s\u00ed. La prueba ha sido que no\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"4hlc06a\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Florencia Grieco: \u00bfEsta distancia con la realidad explica, al menos en parte, por qu\u00e9 las fuerzas internacionales no pudieron preparar una salida diferente de Afganist\u00e1n, no solo en t\u00e9rminos militares y de seguridad, sino que protegiese a la poblaci\u00f3n civil?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9:<\/strong> Creo que el problema es que nunca nos ha interesado la poblaci\u00f3n afgana. No es solamente ahora que nos hemos ido y que la evacuaci\u00f3n ha sido un verdadero desastre y que hemos dejado a la gente tirada, sino que los afganos no nos interesaron desde el minuto cero. Me gustar\u00eda que se entienda bien que ya desde 2001, cuando la comunidad internacional pact\u00f3 con los se\u00f1ores de la guerra que hab\u00edan arrasado Afganist\u00e1n y puso el pa\u00eds en sus manos, se demostr\u00f3 que no nos importaba nada la poblaci\u00f3n afgana. El general Abdul Rashid Dostum, comandante de las facciones islamistas, fue nombrado vicepresidente de Afganist\u00e1n mientras las fuerzas internacionales estaban en el pa\u00eds. O sea, aquel criminal de guerra era nuestro interlocutor y nuestro aliado. Si hemos hecho esto desde el comienzo y no nos import\u00f3, es l\u00f3gico que ahora hayamos dejado otra vez a tantas personas completamente desprotegidas. Es l\u00f3gico porque nunca nos han interesado.<\/p><p><strong>Florencia Grieco: \u00bfEl regreso talib\u00e1n se debe a un fracaso pol\u00edtico m\u00e1s que militar?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>M\u00f3nica Bernab\u00e9:<\/strong> Normalmente no se habla de pol\u00edtica cuando se discute sobre Afganist\u00e1n. Se habla de acci\u00f3n militar, pero sin un cambio pol\u00edtico nunca iba a haber futuro porque las fuerzas de seguridad no pueden construir ni sostener un pa\u00eds. Ning\u00fan pa\u00eds occidental se basa solamente en el ej\u00e9rcito ni considera a las fuerzas armadas como la instituci\u00f3n principal. Si nosotros no creemos que las cosas funcionan de ese modo, \u00bfpor qu\u00e9 pensamos que funcionar\u00edan en Afganist\u00e1n? \u00bfPor qu\u00e9 dejamos el gobierno en manos de criminales de guerra que se manejaron con impunidad y corrupci\u00f3n en todos los niveles? Hemos hecho all\u00ed todo lo que no har\u00edamos en nuestros pa\u00edses y luego nos hemos lavado las manos. \u00bfC\u00f3mo pudimos pensar que Afganist\u00e1n saldr\u00eda adelante si envenenamos el pa\u00eds desde el comienzo?\u00a0<\/p><p><br \/><br \/><strong>OTROS CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><br \/><br \/><\/p><ul style=\\\"list-style-type: circle;\\\"><li><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/corea-del-norte-florencia-grieco\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">Sonriente y nuclear: Corea del Norte, la tierra del \u00faltimo l\u00edder comunista<\/a><\/span><\/li><li><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/harari-sandel\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">Yuval Noah Harari y Michael J. Sandel: estos son los fantasmas que recorren nuestro mundo<\/a><\/span><\/li><li><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/barack-obama-ben-rhodes-una-tierra-prometida\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">Barack Obama por Ben Rhodes: el legado de un presidente en palabras de un testigo 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15 minutos

21 de noviembre de 2001. Una mujer vestida con un burka tradicional camina con niños mientras huyen de la aldea de Khanabad en el momento en que aviones de combate estadounidenses arrojan bombas sobre las posiciones de los talibanes cerca de la aldea y en la ciudad de Kunduz. Por entonces, Kunduz estaba sitiada por la Alianza del Norte, que rodea a aproximadamente 5.000 «extranjeros» talibanes: combatientes voluntarios árabes, chechenos y paquistaníes que han jurado luchar hasta la muerte. Foto de Sion Touhig (Getty Images).

Veinte años de guerra. 
Ochocientos mil millones de dólares. 
Ciento treinta mil militares extranjeros.
Tres millones de desplazados. 
Dos millones y medio de refugiados.
Ciento sesenta mil afganos muertos.

Siete años y ocho meses en los que Mónica Bernabé fue la única periodista española viviendo y trabajando de forma permanente en Afganistán.

***

Florencia Grieco: Viajaste por primera vez a Afganistán en el año 2000, cuando los talibanes aún estaban en el poder, y viviste allí desde 2006, cuando la presencia militar empezó a crecer hasta llegar al pico en 2011. ¿Cómo ha sido la relación de la población afgana con los extranjeros en estos veintiún años?

Mónica Bernabé: La primera vez que estuve en Afganistán fue un viaje de apenas cuatro días con otras dos mujeres españolas y una activista afgana que nos hizo de guía y nos llevó a visitar varias escuelas clandestinas para niñas. La presencia de extranjeros era mínima y los periodistas tenían muy difícil acceso al país en aquel momento, y entonces nos recibieron como si fuéramos las salvadoras, como si nosotras pudiésemos explicarle al mundo lo que estaba pasando en Afganistán. Cuando volví a principios de 2002, después de la intervención militar de Estados Unidos y apenas tres o cuatro meses después de que cayera el régimen talibán, a las fuerzas extranjeras las recibieron de un modo parecido. Recuerdo que muchos afganos paraban a los militares extranjeros y les daban la mano para agradecerles que estuvieran allí, y esta sensación de gratitud fue creciendo hasta que ocurrió algo que, de a poco, fue cambiando aquella mirada. Por una parte, Estados Unidos inició la intervención militar en Afganistán para hacer caer al régimen talibán luego de los atentados del 11 de septiembre y en ese proceso se alió con las facciones islamistas radicales, los denominados muyahidines, que habían arrasado el país a principios de los años noventa, antes del régimen talibán, y que luego se reunieron en la Alianza del Norte para combatirlo. Son facciones formadas por criminales de guerra conocidos y odiados por la población afgana. Una vez que estos muyahidines ayudaron a Estados Unidos a hacer caer el régimen talibán, pidieron como recompensa formar parte del nuevo gobierno afgano y la comunidad internacional consideró que esto era un mal menor, de modo que aquellos criminales de guerra pasaron a formar parte del gobierno y se quedaron con el control de los ministerios más importantes del Ejecutivo. Entonces se vio que los afganos no acababan de entender la situación: «Esta gente ha venido a ayudarnos, pero han metido en el poder a las personas que han bombardeado Kabul y han destruido el país». 

En paralelo, los talibanes empezaron a coger cada vez más fuerza, porque hay que recordar que, los primeros años, las tropas internacionales estuvieron concentradas en Kabul y no salieron de la capital hasta 2004. En esos tiempos, el resto del país estuvo librado a su suerte y, por supuesto, la insurgencia talibán empezó a rearmarse y a tomar fuerza muy rápidamente hasta estar en condiciones de realizar atentados en la capital. La agitación que produjeron el primer atentado suicida en Kabul en 2004 y el primer secuestro de extranjeros un año después hizo que los extranjeros empezaran a encerrarse cada vez más. Cuando me establecí de forma permanente en Afganistán en 2006, no se veía ni a un extranjero caminando por la calle; todos se movían en coche, aunque fueran a un sitio a cien metros. En aquel clima surgió una vida paralela: supermercados para extranjeros, que oficialmente no eran exclusivos para ellos, pero dado que los precios eran prohibitivos, en la práctica solo ellos podían acceder; restaurantes para extranjeros, también con precios occidentales y personal de seguridad en la puerta. Esto es lo que veía la población afgana: miles de extranjeros que habían llegado a su país, con los que casi no tenían relación, que se movían en coche por la capital, que tenían su vida social aparte y hasta tenían sus propios generadores y, por tanto, tenían electricidad, algo de lo que el resto carecía. Es decir: no vivieron nunca la realidad que vivía la población afgana. Todo esto fue creando distancia y cierta rabia hacia los extranjeros, y con los años también se fue instalando la idea de que tarde o temprano se irían del país y que, por tanto, había que aprovechar el momento. Entonces Afganistán se volvió un sálvese quien pueda.

«Cuando me establecí de forma permanente en Afganistán en 2006, no se veía ni a un extranjero caminando por la calle; todos se movían en coche, aunque fueran a un sitio a cien metros. En aquel clima surgió una vida paralela: supermercados para extranjeros, que oficialmente no eran exclusivos para ellos, pero dado que los precios eran prohibitivos, en la práctica solo ellos podían acceder; restaurantes para extranjeros, también con precios occidentales y personal de seguridad en la puerta».

Florencia Grieco: ¿La situación de las mujeres afganas cambió en algo con la presencia internacional?

Mónica Bernabé: La sociedad afgana es profundamente machista y conservadora, de esto no hay ningún tipo de duda, y son machistas tanto los hombres como las mujeres. Con los muyahidines, con los talibanes, incluso con la presencia internacional, la situación para las mujeres ha sido terrible. Es una sociedad en la que los hombres deciden completamente sobre el destino de las mujeres, sobre lo que pueden hacer y lo que no, tanto que si le preguntas a una mujer en Afganistán cuáles son sus problemas, lo último que dirá es el burka. Esta es la mentalidad, y creo que se debe a que Afganistán no ha tenido posibilidad de evolucionar. Me causa gracia cuando se juzga a la sociedad afgana por cómo es: ¿acaso alguien entiende qué significa vivir cuarenta años en guerra, con toda la destrucción que eso supone? No significa únicamente que caigan bombas o haya enfrentamientos armados. Significa que el sistema sanitario es un auténtico desastre. Significa que no hay electricidad. Significa que los niños empiezan la escolarización a los siete años y con suerte van tres horas al día a clase. Significa que más de la mitad de la población afgana es analfabeta y que entre las mujeres la cifra llega al 70 por ciento. Y no solo han vivido en guerra durante décadas, sino también bajo regímenes totalmente radicales que han utilizado la religión a su favor y han mantenido al país en aislamiento total. Esto es lo que ha ocurrido antes con los talibanes: durante cinco años Afganistán estuvo completamente aislado. En esta situación, ¿alguien cree que realmente puede haber una evolución social y un cambio de mentalidad? Queremos que las mujeres y los hombres afganos de repente sean progresistas y modernos, pero no podemos esperar que la sociedad cambie si no cambia la situación de fondo.

Florencia Grieco: ¿Hay alguna diferencia entre los talibanes que han tomado Kabul ahora y aquellos que tuvieron el poder hasta 2001?

Mónica Bernabé: Los talibanes no han cambiado para nada, siguen siendo los mismos de siempre. Son los mismos que tomaron el poder a mediados de los noventa, solo que ahora están más equipados, tienen más experiencia y son más listos porque claramente han aprendido a utilizar los medios de comunicación a su favor. Hay que recordar que, durante el régimen talibán, hasta 2001, todos los medios estaban prohibidos: estaba prohibida la televisión —de hecho, hicieron desaparecer todos los televisores que había—; estaban prohibidas las fotografías; estaba prohibida la música. Ahora, en cambio, los talibanes están utilizando la televisión y las redes sociales para hacerse propaganda e intentar dar una imagen de cierta moderación y, con eso, intentar ganarse el favor de la comunidad internacional para ser reconocidos como gobierno legítimo de Afganistán, pero su mentalidad y su ideología no han cambiado absolutamente en nada, y cuando el foco se desvíe de Afganistán, harán lo que quieran. Estoy en contacto permanente con personas en Afganistán y las mujeres no cesan de repetir que no creamos nada de lo que los talibanes venden al mundo. Puede ser anecdótico, pero si cuando entraron en Kabul lo primero que hicieron fue tapar todas las imágenes de mujeres en las calles, ¿alguien puede creer realmente que van a permitir que las mujeres trabajen fuera de la casa o que van a reconocerles algún tipo de participación en la vida pública? Es una fantasía.

«Los talibanes no han cambiado para nada, siguen siendo los mismos de siempre. Son los mismos que tomaron el poder a mediados de los noventa, solo que ahora están más equipados, tienen más experiencia y son más listos porque claramente han aprendido a utilizar los medios de comunicación a su favor».

Florencia Grieco: La salida militar revivió la idea de que Afganistán es una realidad impenetrable, «el cementerio de los imperios» donde fracasaron Alejandro Magno, los británicos, los soviéticos y, ahora, los estadounidenses. ¿Qué explicación encontrás en este caso?

Mónica Bernabé: La verdad es que no ha habido ninguna intención de la comunidad internacional de poner en orden la situación en Afganistán, y voy a poner un ejemplo que es anecdótico, pero da a entender bien la profundidad de los problemas que no se han resuelto en estos veinte años. En Afganistán no hay un registro de nacimientos. Cuando nace una criatura, no es obligatorio anotarla: hay gente que lo hace y gente que no. Entonces, si le preguntas a un afgano cuántos años tiene, la mayoría no lo sabe con exactitud porque no están registrados y, por tanto, no tienen una fecha reconocida para documentar qué día han nacido. Puede que tenga veintitrés años, o veinticinco, o quizá veinte. Y si no se registran las personas que nacen y viven en un país, ¿qué ocurre cuando alguien muere o es asesinado? ¿Qué ocurre cuando un hombre mata a su mujer en su casa? Si no hay ni siquiera un registro de que esa mujer existe, a lo mejor se enterará el vecino, pero aquella muerte no figurará en ninguna parte. Así es todo: un desastre lo mires por donde lo mires, desde los detalles más anecdóticos hasta el cuadro general. Y este es el problema principal en Afganistán: no se hizo nada bien. La comunidad internacional ni siquiera intentó poner orden en algo tan básico y tan necesario como un maldito registro de nacimientos, y esta imposibilidad de hacer funcionar la administración afgana es solo una parte. Ahora, si no hicieron bien cosas tan pequeñas, si no se preocuparon por que funcionaran cosas tan básicas, ¿cómo iba a haber un gobierno efectivo? ¿Cómo esperamos que algo pudiese salir bien en Afganistán?

Kabul, 8 de septiembre de 2021. Rahila Talash, de veintisiete años, llora mientras se une a otros manifestantes que marchan por el vecindario de Dashti-E-Barchi un día después de que los talibanes anunciasen su nuevo gobierno interino exclusivamente masculino, sin representación femenina ni de grupos étnicos minoritarios. Foto de Marcus Yam (Getty Images).

Florencia Grieco: ¿A qué se deben estas fallas? Porque han sido veinte años, no dos. 

Mónica Bernabé: No lo sé, no me cabe en la cabeza que la comunidad internacional haya ido con esta mentalidad a Afganistán. En 2011, cuando la presencia internacional ya llevaba diez años, se inició un programa acelerado de alfabetización de la policía afgana porque se dieron cuenta entonces de que los policías afganos no sabían leer ni escribir y que no podían ni siquiera revisar documentación básica. Yo me preguntaba entonces: ¿no os dais cuenta de que estáis intentando vender una imagen de Afganistán y de promover unos proyectos que no cuadran en nada con la situación real del país? Yo siempre he sido periodista de profesión, pero durante dieciséis años presidí la Asociación por los Derechos Humanos en Afganistán, y cada vez que íbamos a pedir subvenciones a la Unión Europea o a instituciones internacionales, nos encontrábamos con que los proyectos que financiaban eran para empoderar a la mujer afgana y promover su participación en la vida política. ¿De qué empoderamiento y participación en la vida política hablan si basta con ir a una maternidad en Afganistán y ver cómo tratan a las mujeres cuando van a parir? Ni una silla les dan para que al menos esperen sentadas. A las mujeres las tratan como animales, y son otras mujeres las que las tratan de ese modo porque en las maternidades no pueden entrar hombres. ¿Por qué no empezaron por allí en lugar de hablar de empoderar y fomentar la participación de las mujeres? Es que no conocían la realidad ni por asomo. El discurso de la comunidad internacional no tenía nada que ver con la realidad del país.

«Durante dieciséis años presidí la Asociación por los Derechos Humanos en Afganistán, y cada vez que íbamos a pedir subvenciones a la Unión Europea o a instituciones internacionales, nos encontrábamos con que los proyectos que financiaban eran para empoderar a la mujer afgana y promover su participación en la vida política. ¿De qué empoderamiento y participación en la vida política hablan si basta con ir a una maternidad en Afganistán y ver cómo tratan a las mujeres cuando van a parir? Ni una silla les dan para que al menos esperen sentadas».

Florencia Grieco: En tu libro, Afganistán. Crónica de una ficción, planteás eso: la comunidad internacional creó un relato acerca de Afganistán —que había democracia, que las mujeres tenían derechos plenos, que el ejército afgano podía detener el avance de los talibanes—, pero nada de aquello tenía nada que ver con la realidad. Ahora se ha dicho que los talibanes lograron tomar el poder casi sin resistencia porque las fuerzas afganas no quisieron pelear. Esta fue la explicación de Estados Unidos. ¿Cuánto de esto también es ficción?

Mónica Bernabé: Todo. Es mentira que las fuerzas afganas no quisieron pelear. El problema es que, aun después de veinte años, las fuerzas afganas no estaban preparadas ni tenían capacidad de abastecerse sin el apoyo permanente de Estados Unidos. Se nos vendió la ficción de que el ejército afgano podía valerse por sí mismo cuando claramente no era así. Creo que Estados Unidos ha tenido una gran responsabilidad en esto porque era el país encargado de formar a este ejército y ellos, más que nadie, debían saber si estaba preparado para quedarse solo. Estados Unidos decía que sí. La prueba ha sido que no. En un momento incluso decidieron financiar una serie de milicias porque no había suficientes fuerzas de seguridad afganas. Las entrenaron, les dieron uniformes, y esas milicias pasaron a formar parte, de algún modo, de las fuerzas de seguridad afganas. Es decir, en vez de reducir el poder de esos grupos, los potenciaron. Cuando las tropas internacionales comenzaron la retirada gradual de Afganistán, le pregunté al representante de la OTAN qué iban a hacer con estas milicias que quedarían fuera de control y su respuesta fue: «Esto es Afganistán». Es decir, nosotros nos vamos y ya verán aquí qué hacen con ellas. Creamos un monstruo, y estando en el país era evidente que aquello no iba a ninguna parte. Era como levantar un edificio con los pies de barro.

«Se nos vendió la ficción de que el ejército afgano podía valerse por sí mismo cuando claramente no era así. Creo que Estados Unidos ha tenido una gran responsabilidad en esto porque era el país encargado de formar a este ejército y ellos, más que nadie, debían saber si estaba preparado para quedarse solo. Estados Unidos decía que sí. La prueba ha sido que no».

Florencia Grieco: ¿Esta distancia con la realidad explica, al menos en parte, por qué las fuerzas internacionales no pudieron preparar una salida diferente de Afganistán, no solo en términos militares y de seguridad, sino que protegiese a la población civil? 

Mónica Bernabé: Creo que el problema es que nunca nos ha interesado la población afgana. No es solamente ahora que nos hemos ido y que la evacuación ha sido un verdadero desastre y que hemos dejado a la gente tirada, sino que los afganos no nos interesaron desde el minuto cero. Me gustaría que se entienda bien que ya desde 2001, cuando la comunidad internacional pactó con los señores de la guerra que habían arrasado Afganistán y puso el país en sus manos, se demostró que no nos importaba nada la población afgana. El general Abdul Rashid Dostum, comandante de las facciones islamistas, fue nombrado vicepresidente de Afganistán mientras las fuerzas internacionales estaban en el país. O sea, aquel criminal de guerra era nuestro interlocutor y nuestro aliado. Si hemos hecho esto desde el comienzo y no nos importó, es lógico que ahora hayamos dejado otra vez a tantas personas completamente desprotegidas. Es lógico porque nunca nos han interesado.

Florencia Grieco: ¿El regreso talibán se debe a un fracaso político más que militar?

Mónica Bernabé: Normalmente no se habla de política cuando se discute sobre Afganistán. Se habla de acción militar, pero sin un cambio político nunca iba a haber futuro porque las fuerzas de seguridad no pueden construir ni sostener un país. Ningún país occidental se basa solamente en el ejército ni considera a las fuerzas armadas como la institución principal. Si nosotros no creemos que las cosas funcionan de ese modo, ¿por qué pensamos que funcionarían en Afganistán? ¿Por qué dejamos el gobierno en manos de criminales de guerra que se manejaron con impunidad y corrupción en todos los niveles? Hemos hecho allí todo lo que no haríamos en nuestros países y luego nos hemos lavado las manos. ¿Cómo pudimos pensar que Afganistán saldría adelante si envenenamos el país desde el comienzo? 



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