Entrevistas

Patrick Radden Keefe: periodismo a fuego lento

Paciencia y minuciosidad son las bases sobre las que Patrick Radden Keefe levanta sus historias. Sus libros son portentos de no ficción narrados desde todos los ángulos posibles. «El imperio del dolor» es una monumental investigación periodística sobre los Sackler y la empresa insignia de la familia, Purdue Pharma, corporación responsable de la oxicodona, la heroína del siglo XXI. En «No digas nada», Radden Keefe se adentra en las cloacas del IRA para reconstruir con pulso vibrante el conflicto en Irlanda del Norte. Y en «Maleantes» (también en Reservoir Books, como las anteriores) explora los límites entre lo legal y lo ilegal a través de doce retratos independientes. Con motivo de su presencia en La Noche Más Negra 2023, el festival de «thriller» y «true crime» de Penguin Random House Grupo Editorial, le preguntamos sobre narrativa de no ficción, periodismo de largo alcance en la era del consumo rápido y, en última instancia, sobre el origen del Mal.

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Sus libros son portentos de no ficci\u00f3n narrados desde todos los \u00e1ngulos posibles. \u00abEl imperio del dolor\u00bb es una monumental investigaci\u00f3n period\u00edstica sobre los Sackler y la empresa insignia de la familia, Purdue Pharma, corporaci\u00f3n responsable de la oxicodona, la hero\u00edna del siglo XXI. En \u00abNo digas nada\u00bb, Radden Keefe se adentra en las cloacas del IRA para reconstruir con pulso vibrante el conflicto en Irlanda del Norte. Y en \u00abMaleantes\u00bb (tambi\u00e9n en Reservoir Books, como las anteriores) explora los l\u00edmites entre lo legal y lo ilegal a trav\u00e9s de doce retratos independientes. Con motivo de su presencia en La Noche M\u00e1s Negra 2023, el festival de \u00abthriller\u00bb y \u00abtrue crime\u00bb de Penguin Random House Grupo Editorial, le preguntamos sobre narrativa de no ficci\u00f3n, periodismo de largo alcance en la era del consumo r\u00e1pido y, en \u00faltima instancia, sobre el origen del Mal.<\/p>","full_content":"","content":"[{\"id\":\"zn12k30\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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style=\\\"text-align: right;\\\">Patrick Radden Keefe en La Noche m\u00e1s Negra 2023. Cr\u00e9dito: <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=LYSeLQt6GQE&amp;list=PLUP-ES4HnMs2QHv7F9KYaqsbMPhSNNG9a&amp;index=2\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Penguin Libros<\/a><\/span>.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"\",\"typography_typography\":\"\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"2\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"10\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"gcv5m3b\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/185016-true-crime\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">La cr\u00f3nica negra<\/a><\/span> tiene en <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/9696-patrick-radden-keefe\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Patrick Radden Keefe<\/a><\/span> a uno de sus representantes m\u00e1s excelsos. El prestigioso e incansable periodista de investigaci\u00f3n, firma habitual de <em>The New Yorker,<\/em> acaba de publicar <em>Maleantes. Historias reales de estafadores, asesinos, rebeldes e impostores<\/em> (Reservoir Books), libro que ha presentado en La Noche M\u00e1s Negra 2023, el festival de novela negra, <em>thriller<\/em> y <em>true crime<\/em> de Penguin Random House Grupo Editorial. Aprovechando su presencia y participaci\u00f3n en el evento, el periodista y experto en literatura <em>noir<\/em> Antonio Lozano habl\u00f3 con \u00e9l sobre hurgar en la verdad, la pasi\u00f3n por los art\u00edculos prolijos, separar lo relevante de lo irrelevante (y la verdad de la pantomima), la investigaci\u00f3n y la escritura como las dos caras de la misma moneda y tambi\u00e9n sobre una posible nueva edad de oro del periodismo en plena era digital.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><strong>Antonio Lozano: <em>Maleantes<\/em> recoge doce art\u00edculos escritos a lo largo de otros tantos a\u00f1os y publicados por <em>The New Yorker.<\/em> \u00bfQu\u00e9 tienen en com\u00fan y por qu\u00e9 los has seleccionado?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> Escribo para <em>The New Yorker<\/em> desde 2006, pero no tengo un terreno espec\u00edfico, sino que voy saltando de una historia a otra. Mi editor dice que mi g\u00e9nero es el melodrama investigativo: siempre hay un trabajo de investigaci\u00f3n con el que hurgo para encontrar esa verdad a veces oculta. Pero tambi\u00e9n soy muy consciente de que esas historias son solo eso: historias. Y eso es lo m\u00e1s importante. Como el medio en el que escribo es una revista, necesito atrapar al lector desde la primera p\u00e1gina y mantener su inter\u00e9s hasta el final. Por eso solo me quedo con las historias buenas y personajes que destaquen. La mayor\u00eda de estos relatos hablan de individuos con una personalidad muy marcada. Casi todos viven al l\u00edmite de la ley o fuera de ella, o bien llevan un tipo de vida que responde a sus propias reglas, y retuercen la realidad para que se ajuste a sus planes y a sus deseos. Ese es uno de los puntos en com\u00fan entre <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/anabel-hernandez-emma-coronel-chapo-guzman\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">superdelincuentes como El Chapo Guzm\u00e1n<\/a><\/span> y sujetos como Anthony Bourdain, que no es que hiciera nada ilegal, pero que ten\u00eda una personalidad muy en\u00e9rgica y picaresca.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"5\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"fj9yk47\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"20\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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Lozano: Entrevist\u00e9 a Anthony Bourdain hace mucho tiempo en Barcelona y era un poco distante... Imagino que no fue f\u00e1cil ganar su confianza.<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> Ese es un campo en el que quiz\u00e1s tengo ventaja, porque un de los lujos de este g\u00e9nero es que puedo tomarme hasta un a\u00f1o para escribir un art\u00edculo, como en este caso. Viajaba con \u00e9l y charlamos mucho: al final termin\u00e9 con m\u00e1s de 20 horas de audios. Y as\u00ed, aunque la persona sea un poco distante al principio, basta un poco de suerte para superar las barreras.<\/p><p><strong>Antonio Lozano: \u00bfQu\u00e9 puedes contarnos de tu m\u00e9todo de trabajo? \u00bfC\u00f3mo eliges los temas de tus art\u00edculos?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> El primer paso es encontrar una historia que me enganche de verdad. Los temas m\u00e1s cortos que escribo me llevan unos cuatro meses, y los m\u00e1s largos un a\u00f1o o m\u00e1s, as\u00ed que la historia tiene que ser vibrante. Tengo que sentir que me llama. Y las ideas para lo que escribo me llegan de cualquier parte. A veces me escriben correos electr\u00f3nicos o cartas con propuestas de personas de a pie. Otras estoy leyendo un art\u00edculo o un libro, encuentro un p\u00e1rrafo que me parece interesante y me digo: \u00ab\u00bfY si profundizo en esto y saco una historia?\u00bb. Y tambi\u00e9n depende de si la persona sobre la que quiero escribir quiere hablar conmigo. Algunas no pueden porque ya han muerto, pero otras est\u00e1n en la c\u00e1rcel o no conceden entrevistas a la prensa. Y eso implica m\u00e1s esfuerzo, porque quieres que el lector sienta que los conoce, aunque no logres sentarte cara a cara con ellos. As\u00ed que tienes que encontrar a alguien que s\u00ed los conozca: sus amigos, su expareja, su examante, sus socios, sus compa\u00f1eros de la infancia, el portero, el ama de llaves, la asistenta\u2026 <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/literatura-contemporanea\/256289-libro-el-imperio-del-dolor-9788418052491\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Cuando escrib\u00ed sobre la familia Sackler<\/a><\/span>, una de mis mejores fuentes fue una profesora de yoga. Cualquier persona puede ser una puerta de acceso. A partir de ah\u00ed, mi proceso se basa casi completamente en la investigaci\u00f3n: un 90 % de ella y un 10 % de sentarme a escribir. Y no es que no me tome en serio el oficio de escribir, porque hay que contar la historia de tal forma que resulte apasionante. Me gusta esa energ\u00eda de escribirla en poco tiempo, as\u00ed que lo que hago es absorber durante meses y luego, en una semana o dos, lo exprimo 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Lozano: O sea, que investigas todo antes de sentarte a escribir.<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> S\u00ed. Pero le doy much\u00edsima importancia a la estructura. Algunos colegas la detestan: no les gustan los esquemas ni los borradores y van escribiendo lo que les viene a la cabeza como si fueran novelistas. Les va saliendo la historia a medida que la escriben. Yo no. Yo necesito un esquema muy detallado, una hoja de ruta, y la perfilo mientras redacto mis informes e investigo. As\u00ed, cuando me siento, voy directo a ello. Muchos escritores hablan del miedo a la p\u00e1gina en blanco; yo nunca he tenido ese miedo porque ya lo tengo todo pensado y solo tengo que encajar las piezas que tengo delante.<\/p><p><strong>Antonio Lozano: En lo relativo a enganchar al lector, \u00bfrecurres a las t\u00e9cnicas de la novela, de la ficci\u00f3n? \u00bfTe ves como aprendiz de Capote, de Gay Talese y esa generaci\u00f3n de grandes escritores norteamericanos?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> S\u00ed, pero creo que mi trabajo sigue m\u00e1s la l\u00ednea de la no ficci\u00f3n y la narrativa que no es novel\u00edstica. Y es complicado porque cuando vuelvo a leer a Truman Capote, especialmente <em>A sangre fr\u00eda,<\/em> que es el libro que dio origen a <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/185016-true-crime\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">todo este g\u00e9nero literario<\/a><\/span>, me doy cuenta de que se invent\u00f3 gran parte de \u00e9l: di\u00e1logos, escenas, personajes\u2026 Rompi\u00f3 todas las reglas del periodismo. Y yo no: yo soy m\u00e1s tradicional. Quiero tomar las herramientas de la ficci\u00f3n, pero para emplearlas en la no ficci\u00f3n. Y tambi\u00e9n pienso que hoy en d\u00eda las normas son mucho m\u00e1s estrictas. Por eso digo que ni en mis libros ni en mis art\u00edculos hay nada inventado. Si escribo que alguien dijo algo es porque tengo una fuente que estuvo all\u00ed y lo recuerda, porque se lo contaron a mi fuente o porque alguien lo escribi\u00f3 en una carta o lo apunt\u00f3 en su diario. Si digo qu\u00e9 tiempo hac\u00eda ese d\u00eda hace 20 a\u00f1os es porque lo s\u00e9, no porque me lo haya imaginado.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"40\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"a1jv2c3\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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Lozano: En tu obra utilizas la t\u00e9cnica del <em>great around<\/em> o perfil directo, como la del reportaje sobre Frank Sinatra de Gay Talese.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> S\u00ed, justo. Admiro a Talese, pero creo que nada puede sustituir el trabajo serio y concienzudo. Hay que profundizar mucho para acercarse al protagonista de la historia. Ahora estoy trabajando en el perfil de Larry Gagosian, tal vez el marchante de arte m\u00e1s importante del mundo. Llevo un a\u00f1o con ello y ya he entrevistado a m\u00e1s de 50 personas. Y tambi\u00e9n a \u00e9l, que ha aceptado hablar conmigo. A veces una peque\u00f1a parte de m\u00ed me dice que estoy perdiendo el tiempo, porque a m\u00ed no me pagan por entrevistar a nadie. Es una manera un poco delirante de trabajar. Pero soy as\u00ed de neur\u00f3tico y prefiero reunir toda la informaci\u00f3n que pueda, porque en cada entrevista obtienes un detalle nuevo, y porque no s\u00e9 trabajar de otra manera. Y aunque escribir un libro lleva mucho m\u00e1s tiempo y m\u00e1s entrevistas que escribir un art\u00edculo, el proceso de investigaci\u00f3n es b\u00e1sicamente el mismo.<\/p><p><strong>Antonio Lozano: Pero supongo que ser\u00e1n retos diferentes, \u00bfno?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> S\u00ed... Eso es lo que me fascin\u00f3 de los art\u00edculos para revistas cuando los descubr\u00ed. La primera vez que di con <em>The New Yorker<\/em> era un chaval: estaba en el instituto y le\u00ed unos cuantos art\u00edculos que hab\u00eda en la biblioteca. Y lo que m\u00e1s me gustaba era que ten\u00edan la extensi\u00f3n perfecta. Cada relato de <em>Maleantes<\/em> tiene m\u00e1s o menos esa extensi\u00f3n, lleva unos 45 minutos leerlo. Y lo bueno es que hay una introducci\u00f3n, un desarrollo y una conclusi\u00f3n. Te sientas, te lo lees y cuando te levantas, ya est\u00e1. Fin de la historia. Y mis dos libros m\u00e1s recientes, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><em><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/patrick-radden-keefe-el-imperio-del-dolor\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">El imperio del dolor<\/a><\/em><\/span> y <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><em><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/patrick-radden-keefe-no-digas-nada-ira-irlanda-del-norte\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">No digas nada<\/a><\/em><\/span>, ambos publicados en Espa\u00f1a, son muy prolijos: leerlos lleva unas semanas y espero que al lector le resulten apasionantes. Pero son proyectos gigantes, y los art\u00edculos para revistas tambi\u00e9n tienen su sustancia: uno tiene la sensaci\u00f3n real de adentrase en ese mundo y de conocer a esos personajes y sus peripecias. Al mismo tiempo, tambi\u00e9n hay menos compromiso: les dedico seis meses, no tres o cuatro a\u00f1os de mi vida. Y la estructura tambi\u00e9n es distinta. En un libro, si quieres explorar an\u00e9cdotas o personajes secundarios, hay algo m\u00e1s de margen para apartarte del tema. En mi \u00faltimo libro, sobre la familia Slacker, hay un cap\u00edtulo entero dedicado a una explosi\u00f3n en una f\u00e1brica en Nueva Jersey, y solo al final te enteras de que pertenece a esa familia. Ese tipo de meandros te los puedes permitir en un libro porque tienes m\u00e1s <em>campo,<\/em> pero en un art\u00edculo ese es justo el tipo de cosas que te cortan al editar. Con los art\u00edculos hay que recortar de forma inmisericorde. A veces me da la sensaci\u00f3n de que me ha quedado como un haiku.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"8x4n5us\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abMuchos escritores hablan del miedo a la p\u00e1gina en blanco. Yo nunca he tenido ese miedo porque cuando me siento a escribir ya lo tengo todo pensado y solo tengo que encajar las piezas que tengo delante\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"nqc837e\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Antonio Lozano: \u00bfQu\u00e9 herramientas utilizas al escribir? Por ejemplo, \u00bfc\u00f3mo te ganas la confianza de tus fuentes?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> Es un proceso lento. Siempre voy a su encuentro, porque mis fuentes son muy diversas: desde un profesor de Harvard hasta un narco del c\u00e1rtel de Sinaloa. Les explico que quiero contar la historia lo m\u00e1s fielmente posible y me lo curro: insisto mucho. Y creo que muchos quieren contar su versi\u00f3n: es cuesti\u00f3n de demostrarles que quieres entender su punto de vista. Incluso los malos, los que han hecho cosas terribles. Yo no estoy aqu\u00ed para juzgar a nadie, sermonear, ni predicar sobre el bien y mal, sino para tratar de entender la psicolog\u00eda de esas personas. Lo que quiero es entender por qu\u00e9 lo han hecho. 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As\u00ed que me fui a Par\u00eds y lo entrevist\u00e9 durante cuatro horas, y a los 30 minutos me dije: \u00ab\u00bfQu\u00e9 haces aqu\u00ed? Este hombre es un mentiroso compulsivo\u00bb. Cuando has entrevistado a mucha gente les haces las mismas preguntas de distintas maneras y te das cuenta de que la cosa no encaja. Se me dispararon todas las alarmas. Y pens\u00e9: \u00abEste es un cuentista. Se lo est\u00e1 inventando todo\u00bb. As\u00ed que abandon\u00e9 el art\u00edculo porque no hab\u00eda por d\u00f3nde cogerlo. \u00bfC\u00f3mo vas a basar un art\u00edculo para la prensa en el relato de un mentiroso? Lo dej\u00e9 y me puse con otra cosa, y seis meses m\u00e1s tarde me despert\u00e9 en mitad de la noche y pens\u00e9: \u00abNo. Voy a contar una historia sobre un mentiroso. Quedar\u00e9 con este tipo y escuchar\u00e9 las milongas que cuenta, y luego separar\u00e9 el polvo de la paja y le mostrar\u00e9 al lector qu\u00e9 es verdad y qu\u00e9 es producto de su fantas\u00eda\u00bb. Y result\u00f3 que el fulano era m\u00e1s bien un ladr\u00f3n que quer\u00eda vender esa informaci\u00f3n robada al mejor postor, pero cuando le pillaron dijo: \u00abNo, no, yo soy un defensor de la transparencia\u00bb. As\u00ed que con esa pieza me lo pas\u00e9 muy bien. A veces pasan esas cosas: parece que un art\u00edculo se pierde, que te lleva a un callej\u00f3n sin salida, y de repente, pensando con creatividad, lo puedes revivir.<\/p><p><strong>Antonio Lozano: \u00bfY has llegado a alguna conclusi\u00f3n sobre la mente criminal? Algo que antes no te hab\u00edas planteado sobre c\u00f3mo funcionan.<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> Lo que m\u00e1s me llama la atenci\u00f3n de todas esas historias es que todos nos contamos una historia sobre nuestra propia vida. Y esto es v\u00e1lido tanto para asesinos y g\u00e1nsteres como para estafadores, ladrones de guante blanco y delincuentes corporativos. Nos levantamos por la ma\u00f1ana, nos miramos al espejo y nos decimos lo decentes y honestos que somos, que cada una de nuestras decisiones tiene un porqu\u00e9. Me sorprende la capacidad que tenemos de mentirnos a nosotros mismos, y lo que he notado es que a menudo esas personas no son malvadas de nacimiento, sino que empiezan cometiendo peque\u00f1as transgresiones y se dicen: \u00abBueno, no es tan grave. Lo hago porque tengo este motivo y no estoy haciendo mal a nadie; de hecho, el bueno aqu\u00ed soy yo\u00bb. Luego esas transgresiones se hacen cada vez mayores y a la larga te encuentras con alguien que hace cosas espantosas pero desconecta de la realidad. No se dan cuenta de lo malvados que son. He escrito guiones para Hollywood, y all\u00ed dicen que el malo de la peli nunca sabe que es el malo: se cree que es el h\u00e9roe. 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Lozano: En el pr\u00f3logo de <em>Maleantes<\/em> cuentas que te ofrecieron escribir una biograf\u00eda de El Chapo y lo rechazaste. \u00bfHas llegado a sentirte amenazado por escribir estos art\u00edculos tan comprometidos?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> Alguna vez s\u00ed, pero lo m\u00e1s que recibo son amenazas de demandas, sobre todo si estoy escribiendo sobre alguien rico o poderoso, pero al final nunca lo han hecho. Y a m\u00ed una demanda judicial no me preocupa demasiado: ning\u00fan abogado va a venir a partirme las piernas. S\u00ed que ha habido momentos en todos estos a\u00f1os en que me he puesto un poco nervioso y he salido corriendo. Pero teniendo en cuenta que soy estadounidense y escritor de una revista conocida, no creo que haya estado realmente en peligro. En el caso de El Chapo, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/el-fixer-narco-miguel-angel-vega\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">M\u00e9xico es un lugar muy peligroso para los periodistas, pero solo si son mexicanos<\/a><\/span>. Muchos han perdido la vida por escribir sobre los c\u00e1rteles y la corrupci\u00f3n, as\u00ed que no estar\u00eda bien comparar mi situaci\u00f3n con la suya. Yo tengo privilegios que ellos no tienen, como un pasaporte estadounidense y la posibilidad de coger un avi\u00f3n e irme a casa cuando quiera. Es como cuando escrib\u00ed mi libro sobre Irlanda del Norte: ten\u00eda una relativa libertad porque no vivo all\u00ed, ni mis hijos van al colegio all\u00ed, ni tengo que volver a Belfast occidental.<\/p><p><strong>Antonio Lozano: Supongo que las personas sobre las que escribes te habr\u00e1n marcado de alguna manera. \u00bfRecuerdas a alguno de ellos de modo especial?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> S\u00ed, claro, a varios. Por ejemplo, Kendall Orenstein, que estaba en la universidad en los a\u00f1os 80 cuando unos terroristas derribaron <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/es.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Vuelo_103_de_Pan_Am\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">el vuelo 103 de Pan Am<\/a><\/span>. Su hermano mayor iba en \u00e9l y Ken se pas\u00f3 los veinticinco a\u00f1os siguientes investigando el atentado: qui\u00e9n hab\u00eda armado la bomba, qui\u00e9n era el autor\u2026 Resolver el misterio de su asesinato. Me resulta muy cercano porque me identifico con esa obsesi\u00f3n de indagar. Y para Ken y muchos otros es as\u00ed: quienes han sufrido un gran trauma necesitan investigar, entender y recomponer la historia que hay detr\u00e1s para encontrarle sentido a la tragedia y superarla. Y yo me siento muy identificado con eso. Tambi\u00e9n hablo en el libro sobre Amy Bishop, que en 2010 dispar\u00f3 a seis colegas suyos de la Universidad de Alabama. Desgraciadamente en Estados Unidos hay tiroteos casi todos los d\u00edas, pero es muy raro que la autora sea una mujer. Y despu\u00e9s se supo que en los 80 hab\u00eda matado de un tiro a su hermano, con una escopeta, y la \u00fanica testigo fue su madre. Y cuando lleg\u00f3 la polic\u00eda, esta dijo: \u00abYo estaba presente y ha sido un accidente\u00bb. As\u00ed que queda la duda de si la madre, por amor a su hija, encubri\u00f3 un terrible crimen en los 80 y, quiz\u00e1, eso llev\u00f3 a que pudiera disparar a un mont\u00f3n de personas en 2010. Las historias que tienen que ver con la familia son las que m\u00e1s recuerdo.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"zgxe66d\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abA diferencia de los libros, que te permiten ciertos meandros y florituras, con los art\u00edculos hay que recortar de forma inmisericorde. A veces me da la sensaci\u00f3n de que me ha quedado como un haiku\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"cqhrmqn\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Antonio Lozano: Para los periodistas que te siguen, \u00bfcu\u00e1les dir\u00edas que son las habilidades necesarias para hacer un buen trabajo como cronista de investigaci\u00f3n?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> Una de las cosas m\u00e1s importantes es aprender a encajar el rechazo. De cada veinte personas que llamas con suerte contestar\u00e1n una o dos, y no debes tirar la toalla por eso. Este oficio es ingrato. La recompensa es baja. Gran parte del trabajo no te lleva a donde quieres llegar, y hay que darle duro para tirar de esos jirones con los que tejer\u00e1s la historia. Por otro lado, al escribir tienes que destilar lo que has investigado. Para m\u00ed es muy frustrante leer el trabajo de alguien que, tras investigar exhaustivamente, te pone sobre la mesa todo el material recopilado y te dice: \u00abHala, l\u00e9etelo t\u00fa\u00bb. Porque el talento de resumir es igual de necesario: el verdadero trabajo es organizar todos esos datos y sacar de all\u00ed una historia que el p\u00fablico quiera conocer. Hay que saber qu\u00e9 cartas elegir y cu\u00e1ndo, y no repartir todo el mazo. Escribir es como tener dos cerebros: el de lector y el de escritor. Cuando uno est\u00e1 leyendo sabe qu\u00e9 le engancha y qu\u00e9 le aburre o le confunde. A veces incluso los buenos escritores se olvidan de su propio cerebro de lector y escriben cosas que, de leerlas de otro, les har\u00edan exclamar: \u00ab\u00bfPara qu\u00e9 tanto detalle? \u00bfPara qu\u00e9 me mete a doce personajes en los dos primeros p\u00e1rrafos? \u00a1Que no me aclaro!\u00bb. Escribir es un di\u00e1logo entre la parte de tu cerebro que lee y la parte de \u00e9l que escribe.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Antonio Lozano: Hablemos por \u00faltimo de la edad de oro de las revistas. Es evidente que ya no estamos en ella, pero t\u00fa crees que internet le ha dado una segunda vida a los art\u00edculos.<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Patrick Radden Keefe:<\/strong> S\u00ed. Hay quien dice que las revistas han muerto, pero yo no lo creo. Hace unos diez o doce a\u00f1os, cuando los lectores empezaron a leer los art\u00edculos en el m\u00f3vil, en <em>The New Yorker<\/em> est\u00e1bamos muy preocupados porque pens\u00e1bamos que nadie iba a querer leer algo tan largo en ellos. Sin embargo, seg\u00fan nuestros datos, mucha gente se pasa hasta 45 minutos leyendo un art\u00edculo en el m\u00f3vil, haciendo<em> scroll<\/em> como si nada. Sigue habiendo un apetito por este tipo de escritura, y eso es muy significativo en un mundo donde todo son redes sociales, bulos e inteligencia artificial. Con la cantidad de basura que hay flotando por ah\u00ed como si fuera informaci\u00f3n, es m\u00e1s importante que nunca tener la seguridad de que cada uno de los datos de los relatos que lees en un libro como el m\u00edo ha sido minuciosamente verificado por terceros. Este tipo de libros siempre van a gustar porque se sustentan sobre un trabajo period\u00edstico serio, que ahora es m\u00e1s necesario que nunca. As\u00ed que espero que la cosa vaya para largo. Qui\u00e9n sabe, quiz\u00e1 en el futuro veamos otra edad de oro del 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class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><strong>OTROS\u00a0CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/patrick-radden-keefe-no-digas-nada-ira-irlanda-del-norte\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Patrick Radden Keefe y el IRA: un regreso literario a los a\u00f1os de plomo en Irlanda del Norte<\/a><\/span><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/patrick-radden-keefe-el-imperio-del-dolor\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Patrick Radden Keefe, la dinast\u00eda Sackler y la crisis de los opioides en Estados Unidos: \u00abEllos abrieron la caja de Pandora\u00bb<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a 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social<\/a><\/span><\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"20\",\"right\":\"20\",\"bottom\":\"20\",\"left\":\"20\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"solid\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"1\",\"right\":\"1\",\"bottom\":\"1\",\"left\":\"1\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"20\",\"right\":\"20\",\"bottom\":\"20\",\"left\":\"20\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"v0ynk38\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"section-stretched\",\"layout\":\"full_width\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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20 minutos

Patrick Radden Keefe en La Noche más Negra 2023. Crédito: Penguin Libros.

La crónica negra tiene en Patrick Radden Keefe a uno de sus representantes más excelsos. El prestigioso e incansable periodista de investigación, firma habitual de The New Yorker, acaba de publicar Maleantes. Historias reales de estafadores, asesinos, rebeldes e impostores (Reservoir Books), libro que ha presentado en La Noche Más Negra 2023, el festival de novela negra, thriller y true crime de Penguin Random House Grupo Editorial. Aprovechando su presencia y participación en el evento, el periodista y experto en literatura noir Antonio Lozano habló con él sobre hurgar en la verdad, la pasión por los artículos prolijos, separar lo relevante de lo irrelevante (y la verdad de la pantomima), la investigación y la escritura como las dos caras de la misma moneda y también sobre una posible nueva edad de oro del periodismo en plena era digital.

Antonio Lozano: Maleantes recoge doce artículos escritos a lo largo de otros tantos años y publicados por The New Yorker. ¿Qué tienen en común y por qué los has seleccionado?

Patrick Radden Keefe: Escribo para The New Yorker desde 2006, pero no tengo un terreno específico, sino que voy saltando de una historia a otra. Mi editor dice que mi género es el melodrama investigativo: siempre hay un trabajo de investigación con el que hurgo para encontrar esa verdad a veces oculta. Pero también soy muy consciente de que esas historias son solo eso: historias. Y eso es lo más importante. Como el medio en el que escribo es una revista, necesito atrapar al lector desde la primera página y mantener su interés hasta el final. Por eso solo me quedo con las historias buenas y personajes que destaquen. La mayoría de estos relatos hablan de individuos con una personalidad muy marcada. Casi todos viven al límite de la ley o fuera de ella, o bien llevan un tipo de vida que responde a sus propias reglas, y retuercen la realidad para que se ajuste a sus planes y a sus deseos. Ese es uno de los puntos en común entre superdelincuentes como El Chapo Guzmán y sujetos como Anthony Bourdain, que no es que hiciera nada ilegal, pero que tenía una personalidad muy enérgica y picaresca.

Antonio Lozano: Entrevisté a Anthony Bourdain hace mucho tiempo en Barcelona y era un poco distante... Imagino que no fue fácil ganar su confianza.

Patrick Radden Keefe: Ese es un campo en el que quizás tengo ventaja, porque un de los lujos de este género es que puedo tomarme hasta un año para escribir un artículo, como en este caso. Viajaba con él y charlamos mucho: al final terminé con más de 20 horas de audios. Y así, aunque la persona sea un poco distante al principio, basta un poco de suerte para superar las barreras.

Antonio Lozano: ¿Qué puedes contarnos de tu método de trabajo? ¿Cómo eliges los temas de tus artículos?

Patrick Radden Keefe: El primer paso es encontrar una historia que me enganche de verdad. Los temas más cortos que escribo me llevan unos cuatro meses, y los más largos un año o más, así que la historia tiene que ser vibrante. Tengo que sentir que me llama. Y las ideas para lo que escribo me llegan de cualquier parte. A veces me escriben correos electrónicos o cartas con propuestas de personas de a pie. Otras estoy leyendo un artículo o un libro, encuentro un párrafo que me parece interesante y me digo: «¿Y si profundizo en esto y saco una historia?». Y también depende de si la persona sobre la que quiero escribir quiere hablar conmigo. Algunas no pueden porque ya han muerto, pero otras están en la cárcel o no conceden entrevistas a la prensa. Y eso implica más esfuerzo, porque quieres que el lector sienta que los conoce, aunque no logres sentarte cara a cara con ellos. Así que tienes que encontrar a alguien que sí los conozca: sus amigos, su expareja, su examante, sus socios, sus compañeros de la infancia, el portero, el ama de llaves, la asistenta… Cuando escribí sobre la familia Sackler, una de mis mejores fuentes fue una profesora de yoga. Cualquier persona puede ser una puerta de acceso. A partir de ahí, mi proceso se basa casi completamente en la investigación: un 90 % de ella y un 10 % de sentarme a escribir. Y no es que no me tome en serio el oficio de escribir, porque hay que contar la historia de tal forma que resulte apasionante. Me gusta esa energía de escribirla en poco tiempo, así que lo que hago es absorber durante meses y luego, en una semana o dos, lo exprimo todo.

Un maestro de la no ficción novelada

Antonio Lozano: O sea, que investigas todo antes de sentarte a escribir.

Patrick Radden Keefe: Sí. Pero le doy muchísima importancia a la estructura. Algunos colegas la detestan: no les gustan los esquemas ni los borradores y van escribiendo lo que les viene a la cabeza como si fueran novelistas. Les va saliendo la historia a medida que la escriben. Yo no. Yo necesito un esquema muy detallado, una hoja de ruta, y la perfilo mientras redacto mis informes e investigo. Así, cuando me siento, voy directo a ello. Muchos escritores hablan del miedo a la página en blanco; yo nunca he tenido ese miedo porque ya lo tengo todo pensado y solo tengo que encajar las piezas que tengo delante.

Antonio Lozano: En lo relativo a enganchar al lector, ¿recurres a las técnicas de la novela, de la ficción? ¿Te ves como aprendiz de Capote, de Gay Talese y esa generación de grandes escritores norteamericanos?

Patrick Radden Keefe: Sí, pero creo que mi trabajo sigue más la línea de la no ficción y la narrativa que no es novelística. Y es complicado porque cuando vuelvo a leer a Truman Capote, especialmente A sangre fría, que es el libro que dio origen a todo este género literario, me doy cuenta de que se inventó gran parte de él: diálogos, escenas, personajes… Rompió todas las reglas del periodismo. Y yo no: yo soy más tradicional. Quiero tomar las herramientas de la ficción, pero para emplearlas en la no ficción. Y también pienso que hoy en día las normas son mucho más estrictas. Por eso digo que ni en mis libros ni en mis artículos hay nada inventado. Si escribo que alguien dijo algo es porque tengo una fuente que estuvo allí y lo recuerda, porque se lo contaron a mi fuente o porque alguien lo escribió en una carta o lo apuntó en su diario. Si digo qué tiempo hacía ese día hace 20 años es porque lo sé, no porque me lo haya imaginado.

Patrick Radden Keefe en Barcelona, en una imagen de 2021. Crédito: Getty Images.

Patrick Radden Keefe en Barcelona, en una imagen de 2021. Crédito: Getty Images.

Antonio Lozano: En tu obra utilizas la técnica del great around o perfil directo, como la del reportaje sobre Frank Sinatra de Gay Talese. 

Patrick Radden Keefe: Sí, justo. Admiro a Talese, pero creo que nada puede sustituir el trabajo serio y concienzudo. Hay que profundizar mucho para acercarse al protagonista de la historia. Ahora estoy trabajando en el perfil de Larry Gagosian, tal vez el marchante de arte más importante del mundo. Llevo un año con ello y ya he entrevistado a más de 50 personas. Y también a él, que ha aceptado hablar conmigo. A veces una pequeña parte de mí me dice que estoy perdiendo el tiempo, porque a mí no me pagan por entrevistar a nadie. Es una manera un poco delirante de trabajar. Pero soy así de neurótico y prefiero reunir toda la información que pueda, porque en cada entrevista obtienes un detalle nuevo, y porque no sé trabajar de otra manera. Y aunque escribir un libro lleva mucho más tiempo y más entrevistas que escribir un artículo, el proceso de investigación es básicamente el mismo.

Antonio Lozano: Pero supongo que serán retos diferentes, ¿no?

Patrick Radden Keefe: Sí... Eso es lo que me fascinó de los artículos para revistas cuando los descubrí. La primera vez que di con The New Yorker era un chaval: estaba en el instituto y leí unos cuantos artículos que había en la biblioteca. Y lo que más me gustaba era que tenían la extensión perfecta. Cada relato de Maleantes tiene más o menos esa extensión, lleva unos 45 minutos leerlo. Y lo bueno es que hay una introducción, un desarrollo y una conclusión. Te sientas, te lo lees y cuando te levantas, ya está. Fin de la historia. Y mis dos libros más recientes, El imperio del dolor y No digas nada, ambos publicados en España, son muy prolijos: leerlos lleva unas semanas y espero que al lector le resulten apasionantes. Pero son proyectos gigantes, y los artículos para revistas también tienen su sustancia: uno tiene la sensación real de adentrase en ese mundo y de conocer a esos personajes y sus peripecias. Al mismo tiempo, también hay menos compromiso: les dedico seis meses, no tres o cuatro años de mi vida. Y la estructura también es distinta. En un libro, si quieres explorar anécdotas o personajes secundarios, hay algo más de margen para apartarte del tema. En mi último libro, sobre la familia Slacker, hay un capítulo entero dedicado a una explosión en una fábrica en Nueva Jersey, y solo al final te enteras de que pertenece a esa familia. Ese tipo de meandros te los puedes permitir en un libro porque tienes más campo, pero en un artículo ese es justo el tipo de cosas que te cortan al editar. Con los artículos hay que recortar de forma inmisericorde. A veces me da la sensación de que me ha quedado como un haiku.

«Muchos escritores hablan del miedo a la página en blanco. Yo nunca he tenido ese miedo porque cuando me siento a escribir ya lo tengo todo pensado y solo tengo que encajar las piezas que tengo delante».

Antonio Lozano: ¿Qué herramientas utilizas al escribir? Por ejemplo, ¿cómo te ganas la confianza de tus fuentes?

Patrick Radden Keefe: Es un proceso lento. Siempre voy a su encuentro, porque mis fuentes son muy diversas: desde un profesor de Harvard hasta un narco del cártel de Sinaloa. Les explico que quiero contar la historia lo más fielmente posible y me lo curro: insisto mucho. Y creo que muchos quieren contar su versión: es cuestión de demostrarles que quieres entender su punto de vista. Incluso los malos, los que han hecho cosas terribles. Yo no estoy aquí para juzgar a nadie, sermonear, ni predicar sobre el bien y mal, sino para tratar de entender la psicología de esas personas. Lo que quiero es entender por qué lo han hecho. Muchas veces no quieren hablar conmigo, y es entonces cuando busco otra manera de contar la historia.

Antonio Lozano: ¿Alguna vez has dejado algún artículo porque no has logrado avanzar?

Patrick Radden Keefe: Sí, y en Maleantes hay un buen ejemplo. Hace años me contaron que había un tipo que era como el Edward Snowden de la banca suiza. Un tal Hervé Falciani que había estado encarcelado en España. Él era de Mónaco y trabajaba en el HSBC en Ginebra, en la banca privada, y un buen día se llevó los datos de todos sus clientes ricos que ocultaban sus fortunas en Suiza para no pagar impuestos en sus países de origen: Francia, España, Estados Unidos… Y entregó esa información a varios gobiernos, empezando por el francés, que se pusieron a investigar. Así que me fui a París y lo entrevisté durante cuatro horas, y a los 30 minutos me dije: «¿Qué haces aquí? Este hombre es un mentiroso compulsivo». Cuando has entrevistado a mucha gente les haces las mismas preguntas de distintas maneras y te das cuenta de que la cosa no encaja. Se me dispararon todas las alarmas. Y pensé: «Este es un cuentista. Se lo está inventando todo». Así que abandoné el artículo porque no había por dónde cogerlo. ¿Cómo vas a basar un artículo para la prensa en el relato de un mentiroso? Lo dejé y me puse con otra cosa, y seis meses más tarde me desperté en mitad de la noche y pensé: «No. Voy a contar una historia sobre un mentiroso. Quedaré con este tipo y escucharé las milongas que cuenta, y luego separaré el polvo de la paja y le mostraré al lector qué es verdad y qué es producto de su fantasía». Y resultó que el fulano era más bien un ladrón que quería vender esa información robada al mejor postor, pero cuando le pillaron dijo: «No, no, yo soy un defensor de la transparencia». Así que con esa pieza me lo pasé muy bien. A veces pasan esas cosas: parece que un artículo se pierde, que te lleva a un callejón sin salida, y de repente, pensando con creatividad, lo puedes revivir.

Antonio Lozano: ¿Y has llegado a alguna conclusión sobre la mente criminal? Algo que antes no te habías planteado sobre cómo funcionan.

Patrick Radden Keefe: Lo que más me llama la atención de todas esas historias es que todos nos contamos una historia sobre nuestra propia vida. Y esto es válido tanto para asesinos y gánsteres como para estafadores, ladrones de guante blanco y delincuentes corporativos. Nos levantamos por la mañana, nos miramos al espejo y nos decimos lo decentes y honestos que somos, que cada una de nuestras decisiones tiene un porqué. Me sorprende la capacidad que tenemos de mentirnos a nosotros mismos, y lo que he notado es que a menudo esas personas no son malvadas de nacimiento, sino que empiezan cometiendo pequeñas transgresiones y se dicen: «Bueno, no es tan grave. Lo hago porque tengo este motivo y no estoy haciendo mal a nadie; de hecho, el bueno aquí soy yo». Luego esas transgresiones se hacen cada vez mayores y a la larga te encuentras con alguien que hace cosas espantosas pero desconecta de la realidad. No se dan cuenta de lo malvados que son. He escrito guiones para Hollywood, y allí dicen que el malo de la peli nunca sabe que es el malo: se cree que es el héroe. Para él la película es completamente distinta, y eso es muy interesante, porque para entender por qué esas personas se comportan de esa forma hay que oír la historia que se cuentan a sí mismos sobre lo que hacen.

Patrick Radden Keefe en Barcelona, en una imagen de 2021. Crédito: Getty Images.

Patrick Radden Keefe en Barcelona, en una imagen de 2021. Crédito: Getty Images.

Antonio Lozano: En el prólogo de Maleantes cuentas que te ofrecieron escribir una biografía de El Chapo y lo rechazaste. ¿Has llegado a sentirte amenazado por escribir estos artículos tan comprometidos?

Patrick Radden Keefe: Alguna vez sí, pero lo más que recibo son amenazas de demandas, sobre todo si estoy escribiendo sobre alguien rico o poderoso, pero al final nunca lo han hecho. Y a mí una demanda judicial no me preocupa demasiado: ningún abogado va a venir a partirme las piernas. Sí que ha habido momentos en todos estos años en que me he puesto un poco nervioso y he salido corriendo. Pero teniendo en cuenta que soy estadounidense y escritor de una revista conocida, no creo que haya estado realmente en peligro. En el caso de El Chapo, México es un lugar muy peligroso para los periodistas, pero solo si son mexicanos. Muchos han perdido la vida por escribir sobre los cárteles y la corrupción, así que no estaría bien comparar mi situación con la suya. Yo tengo privilegios que ellos no tienen, como un pasaporte estadounidense y la posibilidad de coger un avión e irme a casa cuando quiera. Es como cuando escribí mi libro sobre Irlanda del Norte: tenía una relativa libertad porque no vivo allí, ni mis hijos van al colegio allí, ni tengo que volver a Belfast occidental.

Antonio Lozano: Supongo que las personas sobre las que escribes te habrán marcado de alguna manera. ¿Recuerdas a alguno de ellos de modo especial?

Patrick Radden Keefe: Sí, claro, a varios. Por ejemplo, Kendall Orenstein, que estaba en la universidad en los años 80 cuando unos terroristas derribaron el vuelo 103 de Pan Am. Su hermano mayor iba en él y Ken se pasó los veinticinco años siguientes investigando el atentado: quién había armado la bomba, quién era el autor… Resolver el misterio de su asesinato. Me resulta muy cercano porque me identifico con esa obsesión de indagar. Y para Ken y muchos otros es así: quienes han sufrido un gran trauma necesitan investigar, entender y recomponer la historia que hay detrás para encontrarle sentido a la tragedia y superarla. Y yo me siento muy identificado con eso. También hablo en el libro sobre Amy Bishop, que en 2010 disparó a seis colegas suyos de la Universidad de Alabama. Desgraciadamente en Estados Unidos hay tiroteos casi todos los días, pero es muy raro que la autora sea una mujer. Y después se supo que en los 80 había matado de un tiro a su hermano, con una escopeta, y la única testigo fue su madre. Y cuando llegó la policía, esta dijo: «Yo estaba presente y ha sido un accidente». Así que queda la duda de si la madre, por amor a su hija, encubrió un terrible crimen en los 80 y, quizá, eso llevó a que pudiera disparar a un montón de personas en 2010. Las historias que tienen que ver con la familia son las que más recuerdo.

«A diferencia de los libros, que te permiten ciertos meandros y florituras, con los artículos hay que recortar de forma inmisericorde. A veces me da la sensación de que me ha quedado como un haiku».

Antonio Lozano: Para los periodistas que te siguen, ¿cuáles dirías que son las habilidades necesarias para hacer un buen trabajo como cronista de investigación? 

Patrick Radden Keefe: Una de las cosas más importantes es aprender a encajar el rechazo. De cada veinte personas que llamas con suerte contestarán una o dos, y no debes tirar la toalla por eso. Este oficio es ingrato. La recompensa es baja. Gran parte del trabajo no te lleva a donde quieres llegar, y hay que darle duro para tirar de esos jirones con los que tejerás la historia. Por otro lado, al escribir tienes que destilar lo que has investigado. Para mí es muy frustrante leer el trabajo de alguien que, tras investigar exhaustivamente, te pone sobre la mesa todo el material recopilado y te dice: «Hala, léetelo tú». Porque el talento de resumir es igual de necesario: el verdadero trabajo es organizar todos esos datos y sacar de allí una historia que el público quiera conocer. Hay que saber qué cartas elegir y cuándo, y no repartir todo el mazo. Escribir es como tener dos cerebros: el de lector y el de escritor. Cuando uno está leyendo sabe qué le engancha y qué le aburre o le confunde. A veces incluso los buenos escritores se olvidan de su propio cerebro de lector y escriben cosas que, de leerlas de otro, les harían exclamar: «¿Para qué tanto detalle? ¿Para qué me mete a doce personajes en los dos primeros párrafos? ¡Que no me aclaro!». Escribir es un diálogo entre la parte de tu cerebro que lee y la parte de él que escribe. 

Antonio Lozano: Hablemos por último de la edad de oro de las revistas. Es evidente que ya no estamos en ella, pero tú crees que internet le ha dado una segunda vida a los artículos.

Patrick Radden Keefe: Sí. Hay quien dice que las revistas han muerto, pero yo no lo creo. Hace unos diez o doce años, cuando los lectores empezaron a leer los artículos en el móvil, en The New Yorker estábamos muy preocupados porque pensábamos que nadie iba a querer leer algo tan largo en ellos. Sin embargo, según nuestros datos, mucha gente se pasa hasta 45 minutos leyendo un artículo en el móvil, haciendo scroll como si nada. Sigue habiendo un apetito por este tipo de escritura, y eso es muy significativo en un mundo donde todo son redes sociales, bulos e inteligencia artificial. Con la cantidad de basura que hay flotando por ahí como si fuera información, es más importante que nunca tener la seguridad de que cada uno de los datos de los relatos que lees en un libro como el mío ha sido minuciosamente verificado por terceros. Este tipo de libros siempre van a gustar porque se sustentan sobre un trabajo periodístico serio, que ahora es más necesario que nunca. Así que espero que la cosa vaya para largo. Quién sabe, quizá en el futuro veamos otra edad de oro del periodismo.