Uri Bleier: «Les hemos arrebatado el futuro a las mujeres trans, se lo hemos arrancado de tajo completamente»

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Su protagonista, indomable y entra\u00f1able, cabalga esta historia con una voz que no se calla nada, que se inyecta de vida aunque duela, que arde y brilla. \u00abEsta cuerpa m\u00eda\u00bb no es solo una novela: es un manifiesto encarnado, una canci\u00f3n furiosa y luminosa en la que cada palabra tiene 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href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/980925-uri-bleier\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">Uri Bleier<\/span><\/a> escribe con la pasi\u00f3n de quien empieza a conocer todo el potencial de las palabras y aprende a disfrutar explot\u00e1ndolo. Con horas de investigaci\u00f3n y trabajo, ha levantado esta historia, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/tematicas\/352752-ebook-esta-cuerpa-mia-9786073849388\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><em>Esta cuerpa m\u00eda<\/em> (Alfaguara, 2025)<\/a><\/span>, gracias a un inter\u00e9s genuino por el lenguaje, por la oralidad, por qu\u00e9 dice de nosotros no solo aquello que expresamos, si no c\u00f3mo lo hacemos. Con la experiencia de Cassandra Huaso como base, el escritor \u00abchilango, jud\u00edo y joto\u00bb crea una voz en primera persona que transmite el dolor m\u00e1s terrible a trav\u00e9s de la gracia, del desparpajo, llegando al \u00faltimo grado de humor que se alcanza con la franqueza absoluta. As\u00ed ha escrito una novela que nos incita a entrar en el vaiv\u00e9n de emociones sin ning\u00fan tipo de armadura, porque no hay defensa posible contra la sinceridad, la narraci\u00f3n directa y sin tapujos. Ha conseguido ver y atrapar la potencia del <a href=\\\"https:\/\/es.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Queer\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">movimiento <em>queer<\/em><\/span><\/a><em>,<\/em> de la lucha de las personas trans, de las trabajadoras sexuales, en afilados personajes que no pueden ser m\u00e1s honestos, que nos hacen verles y vivir la historia de M\u00f3nica \u2014que naci\u00f3 como Leonardo\u2014 como ella misma se la hubiera contado: sin pena, sin complejos, con la cabeza alta y apretando bien los 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\u00bfC\u00f3mo se hacen convivir en una misma novela tanta violencia y tanta dulzura?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Una de las cosas que m\u00e1s me interesa explorar en mi escritura, y en lo personal, es la capacidad de vivir ciertas cosas de cierta forma. Esta historia est\u00e1 basada en una serie de entrevistas que le hice a Cassandra Huaso, una <em>chava<\/em> trans trabajadora sexual en M\u00e9xico. La intuici\u00f3n que yo ten\u00eda al acercarme al <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/972970-libros-para-la-visibilidad-trans\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span>colectivo trans<\/span><\/a> ten\u00eda que ver con c\u00f3mo usaban el lenguaje. Me interesaba acercarme a gente que, por s\u00ed misma, trabajara con el lenguaje como una herramienta mucho m\u00e1s que pol\u00edtica. Me fui dando cuenta de que el lenguaje te puede salvar. La intenci\u00f3n era justamente no victimizarlas, ni tampoco exotizarlas. Para m\u00ed fue un aprendizaje muy importante porque uno no piensa en el lenguaje como un espacio de salvaci\u00f3n, sin embargo, es justamente lo que permite estar viviendo esos\u00a0<em>swings<\/em>\u00a0de sensaciones, pero no quedarse en uno.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: En la novela hay mucha investigaci\u00f3n, y mucho de aprender a hablar como tu personaje. \u00bfFue dif\u00edcil apropiarse de una voz ajena, para narrar en primera persona una historia tan personal?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Cuando empezaba a entrevistarla y ella me iba explicando ciertas cosas, surg\u00edan en m\u00ed dudas que estaban muy mediadas por la curiosidad, dudas que no ten\u00edan nada que ver con la historia que ella me estaba contando. Entend\u00ed que yo iba a ser capaz de contar esa historia en la medida en la que pudiera eliminarme a m\u00ed por completo. Porque esto pasa, de repente es m\u00e1s bien esa curiosidad la que te lleva la pluma. Y entonces, en la medida en la que t\u00fa entiendas y elimines esa curiosidad, no vas a estar guiado por ti, sino por el personaje. Esa fue la forma que tuve para encarnar esa voz, sin que yo estuviera entorpeciendo.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: Profundizas en v\u00ednculos muy potentes, muy personales, como el de la <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/maria-picasso-madre-protectora-y-musa-del-genio-pablo-picasso\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">madre<\/span><\/a>.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Yo creo de verdad que tu madre es tu patria. Me interesaba explorar aqu\u00ed ese v\u00ednculo, porque es muy complejo, tiene como un motorcito de amor, muy importante, pero tiene tambi\u00e9n una carga social. El camino por donde transcurre eso que quiz\u00e1s es el amor, no es tan f\u00e1cil. Est\u00e1 la sociedad vi\u00e9ndote, est\u00e1 una mam\u00e1 que, por mucho que te quiera, tambi\u00e9n tiene expectativas sobre ti y que, sobre todo, no te quiere hacer sufrir. Muchas veces en esas experiencias, el miedo de la madre es a que sufras. Entonces explorar esos v\u00ednculos familiares para m\u00ed era muy importante. En mi propia familia hay v\u00ednculos muy buenos, y v\u00ednculos muy complicados, que creo que era importante extrapolarlos aqu\u00ed, configurar esa familia de tal forma que se sintiera algo real, complejo.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: El <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/gabriela-wiener-dolores-reyes-huaco-retrato\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">padre<\/span><\/a> tiene el perfil de villano, sin embargo, ella dice: \u00abMi pap\u00e1 estaba hecho de madera buena\u00bb. \u00bfQu\u00e9 sucede con el v\u00ednculo con su padre?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Yo creo que muchas veces lo que pasa con las figuras que se quedan est\u00e1ticas en el tiempo, es que uno tiende a romantizarlas. Y ya uno puede hacer con ellas lo que quiera, porque puedes proyectarle para atr\u00e1s lo que te interesa. Me parece que son figuras muy interesantes en ese sentido, porque no terminaron de crear su obra en t\u00e9rminos de vida. Entonces uno puede tomar ciertos rasgos y hacerlos crecer, y puede apagar otros. Eso pasa en las relaciones y pasa tambi\u00e9n en la propia familia. En la medida en que entiendas que tu cerebro te va a boicotear, ser\u00e1s capaz de vivir una mejor vida. Muchas veces eso tambi\u00e9n es lo lindo de escribir en primera persona, que no tienes que regalarle a todo el mundo una visi\u00f3n general de lo que pasa. En ese sentido, se proyecta como: bueno este es el v\u00ednculo de un pap\u00e1 que se muri\u00f3, al que ella le ten\u00eda cari\u00f1o, porque a esa edad tu pap\u00e1 es un poco un superh\u00e9roe. Pero visto desde fuera dices <em>mija\u2026<\/em><\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: En un cap\u00edtulo ella acompa\u00f1a, todav\u00eda como Leonardo, a su madre y a su hermana a ver a Juan Gabriel. \u00bfC\u00f3mo de importantes son los referentes?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Acercarte a un personaje tan famoso que de una u otra forma, te espejea, te permite entablar una relaci\u00f3n id\u00edlica con alguien que no existe. Parece que son personas a las que uno va a atribuirles la proyecci\u00f3n de quiz\u00e1s qui\u00e9n quiere ser, qu\u00e9 tanto \u00e9xito quiere tener, qu\u00e9 tan visible quiere ser, la posibilidad de vestirte de otra manera, de ser diferente. A el famoso se le permite ser libre. Esto pasa en ese cap\u00edtulo, Juan Gabriel est\u00e1 indultado de ser gay en M\u00e9xico, porque era demasiado famoso, muy talentoso. De repente te reconoces ah\u00ed y empiezas a entablar esa relaci\u00f3n un poco plat\u00f3nica. Y yo creo que eso pasa con estos referentes, como crees que te entienden, buscas en sus letras algo que te representa. Son personas muy importantes para la construcci\u00f3n, digamos, de tu persona no normativa.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"5mh3q2q\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abCreo de verdad que tu madre es tu patria. Me interesaba explorar aqu\u00ed ese v\u00ednculo, porque es muy complejo, tiene como un motorcito de amor, muy importante, pero tiene tambi\u00e9n una carga social\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"lm8bqnh\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfCu\u00e1nta libertad tiene el movimiento <em>queer<\/em> ahora mismo? \u00bfQu\u00e9 implica la libertad?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Es una pregunta dif\u00edcil, yo realmente creo que hemos avanzado mucho en esta lucha, pero que se tiene que seguir dando. Es una cuesti\u00f3n cultural y social, porque de nada sirve que te puedas casar ante la ley, pero en tu casa te sigan machacando, o habitar una escuela en la que te est\u00e1n <em>buleando<\/em> todo el rato. La ley te permite unas libertades que incluso es probable que no puedas llegar a disfrutar, porque la sociedad es el primer regulador, y creo que ah\u00ed es el lugar en el que hay que trabajar. Muchas veces es confuso, pero hay algo que se apaga en la conversaci\u00f3n nacional cuando se logra un derecho. A veces es m\u00e1s importante el hecho de perseguir algo, porque se va ganando mucho en el camino. La lucha no es solo la de lograr que la ley te avale, los pol\u00edticos siempre llegan tarde a todo, la lucha est\u00e1 en el d\u00eda a d\u00eda en la sociedad.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: En un momento se demanda que ellas no tengan el respeto para ser escuchadas, para defenderse a s\u00ed mismas.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> En general se ha vilipendiado a las mujeres trabajadoras sexuales en toda la historia de la sociedad. Las trabajadoras sexuales son un concepto social, al que se le atribuyen ciertas cosas, pero para la sociedad no son personas. Y siempre se tratan como un concepto, no hay un acercamiento, no hay una intenci\u00f3n de entender, no hay un an\u00e1lisis real de lo que est\u00e1 pasando. Siempre han tenido voz, lo que muchas veces no han tenido, es micr\u00f3fono, y ahora empiezan a agarrar el micr\u00f3fono y dicen esp\u00e9rate, aqu\u00ed hay algo que tenemos que luchar.\u00a0La sociedad tiene estos personajes en los que puede descargar toda su furia y su frustraci\u00f3n como si no sucediera en la vida real. T\u00fa los puedes matar, les puedes gritar y eso no se investiga, o no se castiga. Esto es lo que tiene que cambiar y, creo que, desde hace tiempo, est\u00e1 cambiando con las mujeres, est\u00e1 cambiando con el <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/130-libros-lgtb\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">colectivo LGBTQ+<\/span><\/a>, y ahora tiene que empezar a cambiar con el colectivo de las trabajadoras sexuales, porque son personas que tienen el mismo derecho que nosotros.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: El otro gran estigma social que aparece en la historia, que contribuye a esta desvirtuaci\u00f3n, son las drogas. \u00bfPor qu\u00e9 parece que siempre van de la mano?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Creo que tiene que ver con qu\u00e9 herramientas habitan en cada espacio. No vamos a tratar de hacer la analog\u00eda, pero en el espacio de oficina existen un cierto tipo de herramientas y, en la calle, existen otras herramientas. No pueden entrar las de all\u00e1 para ac\u00e1 y las de ac\u00e1 para all\u00e1. La sociedad lo que hace es limpiar los centros pero no elimina la basura: la expulsa. Las drogas son algo que habita en los m\u00e1rgenes. A las mujeres que hacen trabajo sexual y a mucha gente en el colectivo, la sociedad la escupe directamente para el margen, y en el margen, hay aparentemente menos reglas, y donde hay menos reglas, hay m\u00e1s abuso de sustancias.\u00a0M\u00f3nica llega a Tijuana, en su casa le hab\u00edan dicho mira el diablo es esto, son personas que hacen trabajo sexual, son putas, son personas que se drogan, y de repente el diablo es Rosy, pero resulta que es la primera que la ve como la persona que es, que la acepta con ternura. Lo que tienen los m\u00e1rgenes es que si la sociedad no te escupe, no llegas. Entonces ah\u00ed hay unas sustancias m\u00e1s normalizadas que otras. Con el alcohol hay un abuso total en la sociedad, pero no pasa nada. No es por la medida en que eres adicto o no eres adicto a una sustancia, sino como qu\u00e9 tan lavada y qu\u00e9 tan blanqueada 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Cr\u00e9dito: Yvonne Venegas.\",\"link_to\":\"none\",\"link\":{\"is_external\":\"\",\"url\":\"\"},\"view\":\"traditional\",\"section_style_image\":\"\",\"space\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"opacity\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":1},\"hover_animation\":\"\",\"image_border_border\":\"\",\"image_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"image_border_color\":\"\",\"image_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"image_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"image_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"image\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"iicmnpj\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p style=\\\"text-align: right;\\\">Uri Bleier. Cr\u00e9dito: <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/yvovenegas\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Yvonne 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Si salvarse es poder ser fiel a lo que somos, a lo que queremos hacer, en comuni\u00f3n con lo que nos hace bien o nos hace mal. \u00bfCon qu\u00e9 valores se construye M\u00f3nica a s\u00ed misma?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Es muy, muy fuerte cuando entiendes que no vas a salvarte y que lo que vas a hacer es sobrevivir. M\u00e9xico tiene una cultura de la muerte muy rara y me parece muy interesante. Para m\u00ed, la verdadera cultura de la muerte son las mujeres trans. Cassandra dec\u00eda \u00abyo tengo 40 y tantos, ya le debo pues no s\u00e9 ocho o diez a\u00f1os a la vida no m\u00e1s\u00bb. El coraz\u00f3n se me hac\u00eda pedacitos. Entras a querer salvar a una persona que te est\u00e1 diciendo con toda la claridad, y sin ning\u00fan rasgo ni atisbo de victimismo que a los 50 a\u00f1os se quiere ir. Les hemos arrebatado el futuro a estas mujeres, se lo hemos arrancado de tajo completamente. Est\u00e1n intentando sobrevivir todo el rato, y saben que la \u00fanica manera que tienen es con su cuerpo, porque la sociedad no dio otras herramientas, ni permiti\u00f3 utilizarlas, es muy duro. Entonces creo que importan mucho menos los valores o esta construcci\u00f3n, y lo que hay es un modo de supervivencia, un h\u00e1lito de ox\u00edgeno que tiene fecha de caducidad.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfHas sufrido escribiendo?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> S\u00ed. Yo llor\u00e9 much\u00edsimo con esta novela, sigo llorando muchas veces. Te metes tan adentro que te das cuenta de tu privilegio, de las diferencias. Y realmente es muy doloroso, o sea hay cap\u00edtulos, como el del poema de las mujeres o las escenas de violaci\u00f3n que me dan un mal cuerpo que me quiero morir. Tambi\u00e9n me he re\u00eddo y gozado. He vivido en la felicidad m\u00e1s absoluta y en la tristeza m\u00e1s profunda escribiendo.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfC\u00f3mo es de fiel a la realidad?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Demasiado fiel. A m\u00ed me interesa preguntarme muchas cosas, no necesariamente las resuelvo, pero hay unas preguntas que est\u00e1n motivando todo el rato la escritura. Entend\u00ed que hab\u00eda como tres capas, la primera eran los hechos, datos duros, objetivos. Despu\u00e9s, c\u00f3mo hilamos la narraci\u00f3n de estos hechos. Y luego est\u00e1n las sensaciones que deja esa narraci\u00f3n. Cuando entend\u00ed que le quer\u00eda ser fiel a sus sensaciones, porque me parec\u00eda que en las sensaciones est\u00e1 el retrato m\u00e1s real, entonces empec\u00e9 a escribir con mucha libertad de ficci\u00f3n, porque sab\u00eda que no iba a llegar a ese lugar desde otro lado. Pegarse a los hechos, como en el periodismo, no permite mostrar las sensaciones, les cuesta m\u00e1s trabajo llegar ah\u00ed, y para m\u00ed era importante escribir eso. As\u00ed que es asquerosamente fiel, es trist\u00edsimo, y la realidad es mucho m\u00e1s cruda. Incluso hay cosas que ella me contaba que yo sab\u00eda que el libro ya no aguantaba. Hay una frase que es \u00abel papel lo aguanta todo\u00bb, pero aqu\u00ed es como no, el papel no lo aguanta todo, es el cuerpo el que lo aguanta todo.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfEn alg\u00fan momento tuviste miedo de la cr\u00edtica, de tu figura como escritor al elegir esta historia?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/7933-maria-fernanda-ampuero\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Mar\u00eda Fernanda Ampuero<\/a><\/span>, que es una escritora que me arrop\u00f3 mucho, me dijo como \u00abUri la novela es incre\u00edble, pero te van a matar, porque eres blanco, muy privilegiado\u2026\u00bb. Hubo un momento en el que medio asum\u00ed que ten\u00eda que hacer un pr\u00f3logo o algo, y mi editora me dijo \u00ablas novelas no llevan pr\u00f3logo, esto es una ficci\u00f3n. O sea, no te vas a justificar ante nadie, esto est\u00e1 escrito con mucho respeto\u00bb. Ese miedo era de otros y lo entiendo. Hasta hoy nadie ha dicho nada, pero me pueden decir lo que sea. No puedes meterte en camisa de once varas, no salir bien o no hacerlo bien, y luego andar llorando. Una de las cosas m\u00e1s importantes que para m\u00ed tiene que tener un artista, es hacerse cargo de su obra.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"d440dn4\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abRealmente creo que hemos avanzado mucho en esta lucha [la del movimiento <em>queer],<\/em> pero se tiene que seguir dando. Es una cuesti\u00f3n cultural y social, porque de nada sirve que te puedas casar ante la ley, pero en tu casa te sigan machacando, o habitar una escuela en la que te est\u00e1n <em>buleando<\/em> todo el rato\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"3uj7ati\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfY qu\u00e9 fue lo m\u00e1s dif\u00edcil de superar a nivel creativo?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> En esta novela hay como una est\u00e9tica, una po\u00e9tica, algo como muy m\u00edo. Algo que ya me interesa empezar a explorar, que no est\u00e1 terminado de pulir, pero ya se empieza a atisbar. Creo que encontr\u00e9 un poco eso. Luego lo m\u00e1s dif\u00edcil, fue que la historia no fuera solo triste, que la gente no se quedara con un mal sabor de boca, quer\u00eda que entendieran que baja, pero tambi\u00e9n sube. Que hay algo de dignidad en vivir vidas que parecen muy duras, y ah\u00ed creo que me ayud\u00e9 con la estructura. Creo que mucha gente la dejar\u00eda si los cap\u00edtulos fueran m\u00e1s largos, que no podr\u00eda soportar que una escena como la de la violaci\u00f3n se alargara en el tiempo. Hay cosas muy duras, pero la propia estructura te va permitiendo avanzar como \u00abbueno, un poquito m\u00e1s\u00bb.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfQu\u00e9 lecturas o que apoyos han sido importantes?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> Yo creo que los talleres para m\u00ed fueron fundamentales. En Espa\u00f1a siempre animaron mucho, no s\u00e9 si era que les gustaba mi forma de escribir o de leer, pero siempre recib\u00eda mejores cr\u00edticas de los espa\u00f1oles que de la gente en M\u00e9xico. <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/mapa-de-las-lenguas-2025\/el-celo-de-sabina-urraca-soltar-a-la-perra\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">Sabina Urraca<\/span><\/a>, es una incre\u00edble impulsora de la escritura, esa mujer sabe c\u00f3mo sacarte las historias y contagiarte las ganas de escribir. Luego, Mar\u00eda Fernanda Ampuero, que cuando me ley\u00f3 casi que adopt\u00f3 la novela. Y la tercera muy importante, fue la de Pablo Simonetti, porque fue \u00e9l quien realmente me puso en contacto con Mayra, mi editora, para que le hiciera llegar el texto.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfEst\u00e1s orgulloso del resultado final?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Uri Bleier:<\/strong> En t\u00e9rminos de publicaci\u00f3n, creo que se construye y se escribe muy diferente, cuando no sabes que vas a publicar. Hay un punto de valent\u00eda o de libertad que te da el pensar que a lo mejor no se publica. Cuando est\u00e1s escribiendo sin saber que vas a publicar, no est\u00e1s creando un artefacto cerrado, no est\u00e1s desplegando herramientas narrativas en un texto pensando en el total. Creo que eso se hace cuando ya vas a publicar, entonces entran otros cuestionamientos, tambi\u00e9n muy interesantes, pero vas trabajando desde otro lugar. O sea que s\u00ed, estoy contento porque me parece un buen inicio, me representa, me gusta, me divierte mucho, me entristece mucho. Me transmite muchas sensaciones, que era un poco lo que buscaba.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"1mno02b\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><strong>OTROS\u00a0CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/mapa-de-las-lenguas-2025\/esta-cuerpa-mia-de-uri-bleier-el-territorio-cabe-en-una-voz\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">\u00abEsta cuerpa m\u00eda\u00bb, de Uri Bleier: el territorio cabe en una voz<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/gabriela-wiener-dolores-reyes-huaco-retrato\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Gabriela Wiener por Dolores Reyes: en el nombre del padre<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/sabina-urraca-editora-invitada-caballo-de-troya-2023\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Sabina Urraca y el serio juego de la literatura<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/cartas-gabriela-mistral-doris-dan-maria-moreno\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Las cartas de Gabriela Mistral: un cl\u00f3set de cristal<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/recomendaciones\/tendencias\/literatura-lgtbiq-para-celebrar-el-orgullo-con-un-librazo\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Literatura LGTBIQ+ para celebrar el Orgullo con un librazo<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/carla-antonelli-por-alana-s-portero-la-fertilidad-incandescente\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Carla Antonelli por Alana S. 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