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Jorge Ramos con Nicolás Maduro: «El camión de basura no fue un montaje»

Antes de visitar el Palacio de Miraflores para entrevistar a Nicolás Maduro en 2019, el periodista y escritor mexicano Jorge Ramos recorrió las calles de Caracas para recoger testimonios de hombres y mujeres sobre la compleja realidad del país. Durante esa recorrida, se encontró cerca del Palacio con un grupo de personas que rebuscaba comida en camiones de basura. Al hablar con ellos, registró el momento en video para mostrárselo al mandatario chavista durante su encuentro. Y eso hizo poco después. Lo que no sabía es que esos minutos grabados terminarían abruptamente con la entrevista en Miraflores y cambiaría el transcurso de su paso por Venezuela. En este fragmento del flamante «17 minutos. Entrevista con el dictador», Ramos cuenta por primera vez los entretelones de ese encuentro que terminaría en un escándalo político internacional.
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Aquella experiencia iba a cambiar su relaci\u00f3n con el poder y la censura bolivariana.","meta_keywords":"Revista LENGUA Jorge Ramos y Nicol\u00e1s Maduro","short_content":"<p>Antes de visitar el Palacio de Miraflores para entrevistar a Nicol\u00e1s Maduro en 2019, el periodista y escritor mexicano Jorge Ramos recorri\u00f3 las calles de Caracas para recoger testimonios de hombres y mujeres sobre la compleja realidad del pa\u00eds. Durante esa recorrida, se encontr\u00f3 cerca del Palacio con un grupo de personas que rebuscaba comida en camiones de basura. Al hablar con ellos, registr\u00f3 el momento en video para mostr\u00e1rselo al mandatario chavista durante su encuentro. Y eso hizo poco despu\u00e9s. Lo que no sab\u00eda es que esos minutos grabados terminar\u00edan abruptamente con la entrevista en Miraflores y cambiar\u00eda el transcurso de su paso por Venezuela. En este fragmento del flamante \u00ab17 minutos. Entrevista con el dictador\u00bb, Ramos cuenta por primera vez los entretelones de ese encuentro que terminar\u00eda en un esc\u00e1ndalo pol\u00edtico internacional.<\/p>","full_content":"","content":"[{\"id\":\"hzgif98\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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style=\\\"text-align: right;\\\">11 de agosto de 2020. En plena crisis sanitaria provocada por la covid-19, una mujer rebusca comida entre la basura desperdigada por las calles de Caracas, Venezuela. Cr\u00e9dito: Getty Images.<br \/><br 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style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/co\/114555-jorge-ramos\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">JORGE RAMOS<\/a><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.upf.edu\/es\/web\/humanitats\/entry\/-\/-\/15900\/404\/miquel-berga\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\"><br \/><br \/><br 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style=\\\"text-align: left;\\\">La elocuencia y claridad de Jes\u00fas me impact\u00f3. Su hambre y su dolor eran reales. Tambi\u00e9n era innegable la humillaci\u00f3n que sent\u00eda al tener que comer basura.<\/p><p>Ah\u00ed supe que <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=-5pX1KrW_YQ\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">ese era un video que le quer\u00eda mostrar al dictador Nicol\u00e1s Maduro<\/a><\/span>\u00a0al d\u00eda siguiente, durante nuestra entrevista. Est\u00e1bamos a unos veinte minutos del Palacio de Miraflores y la calle exhib\u00eda el terrible fracaso de la revoluci\u00f3n bolivariana. <strong>Su promesa de ayudar a los m\u00e1s desamparados se hab\u00eda esfumado, frente a m\u00ed, en ese cami\u00f3n de basura.<\/strong><\/p><p>Inmediatamente envi\u00e9 el video a uno de nuestros productores en Miami para que lo tuvieran listo al transmitir la entrevista al d\u00eda siguiente. Pero jam\u00e1s me imagin\u00e9 que <strong>el r\u00e9gimen de Maduro nos censurar\u00eda la entrevista, confiscar\u00eda nuestras c\u00e1maras y detendr\u00eda a todo el equipo de Univision.<\/strong><\/p><p>Fue precisamente despu\u00e9s de ver ese video cuando Maduro se levant\u00f3 y dio por terminada la entrevista. Nos quedamos sin nada. Sin embargo, como ese video ya lo hab\u00edamos enviado a Univision en Miami, s\u00ed pudimos mostrarlo p\u00fablicamente como el detonante que dio fin al encuentro en el Palacio de Miraflores. Las acusaciones de Jes\u00fas eran grav\u00edsimas. Culpaba a Maduro de la hambruna que viv\u00eda el pa\u00eds y le ped\u00eda que dejara el poder.<strong> La entrevista no se pod\u00eda ver, pero el video del cami\u00f3n de basura s\u00ed.<\/strong> Y se hizo viral. Desde luego, en la jungla donde las redes sociales se cruzan con el chavismo, hubo quienes sospecharon del origen de nuestro video y hasta sugirieron que se trataba de un montaje. Pero todo hab\u00eda sido cierto.<\/p><p>El reportero Daniel Lozano, del peri\u00f3dico espa\u00f1ol <em>El Mundo<\/em>, fue a buscar a Jes\u00fas en las calles de Caracas unos d\u00edas despu\u00e9s de la entrevista, y lo encontr\u00f3, a pesar de que hay d\u00edas en que no tiene donde dormir. Se llama Robert Jes\u00fas Guerrero y se gana la vida reciclando basura para darles de comer a sus dos hijos, Arantxa y Shubirut.\u00a0<span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.elmundo.es\/cronica\/2019\/03\/03\/5c79707efc6c83a53e8b460c.html?fbclid=IwAR2FoVu8ZnuOGuwIUBxCgCBPFOmWxTR-r5TKtaRThqffgNIT_X3KCyW-8aA\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">Incluso se dej\u00f3 fotografiar con su 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style=\\\"text-align: left;\\\">\u00abLo primero que me encontr\u00e9 fue al cami\u00f3n de la basura sacando las bolsas de la panader\u00eda, me atrev\u00ed a curiosear y saqu\u00e9 unos dulces, con tanta hambre que me los com\u00ed \u2014le explic\u00f3 Jes\u00fas al reportero de <em>El Mundo<\/em> sobre el d\u00eda en que lo grab\u00e9 con mi celular\u2014. Llegaron unos se\u00f1ores a entrevistarme y les di el voto de confianza para contarles lo que yo siento sobre este pa\u00eds\u00bb.<\/p><p><strong>Maduro pod\u00eda esconder y hasta destruir nuestra entrevista, pero no la diaria tragedia que viven muchos venezolanos como Jes\u00fas.<\/strong><\/p><p>Aun as\u00ed, recib\u00ed montones de cr\u00edticas. Me dec\u00edan que ese tipo de im\u00e1genes se pueden ver en cualquier pa\u00eds de Am\u00e9rica Latina. Recib\u00ed, tambi\u00e9n, fotograf\u00edas de personas buscando comida entre la basura en la ciudad de Los \u00c1ngeles. Y todo eso es v\u00e1lido. <strong>Yo tambi\u00e9n lo he visto en muchos lugares del mundo.<\/strong> Pero el video de Jes\u00fas con el cami\u00f3n de basura fue distinto porque romp\u00eda la narrativa oficial del gobierno de Maduro de que la revoluci\u00f3n hab\u00eda mejorado el nivel de vida de los venezolanos m\u00e1s pobres. A pesar de las infladas estad\u00edsticas gubernamentales, <strong>el hambre se sent\u00eda brutalmente a solo unos kil\u00f3metros del Palacio de Miraflores.<\/strong><\/p><p>Lo m\u00e1s sorprendente, sin embargo, es que ese fue un video que Maduro no quiso seguir viendo durante la entrevista. <strong>De manera absurda, casi c\u00f3mica, trata de taparlo con una de sus manos<\/strong> para evitar que lo capten las c\u00e1maras de televisi\u00f3n. Al darse cuenta de que no puede hacerlo, se da la media vuelta y se va.<\/p><p>Maduro pod\u00eda censurar una entrevista en el Palacio de Miraflores. <strong>Pero no pod\u00eda ocultar la realidad ni el hambre en Venezuela.<\/strong><\/p><p style=\\\"text-align: left;\\\"><br \/><br \/><br \/><br \/><strong>OTROS CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><\/p><ul style=\\\"list-style-type: circle;\\\"><li><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/george-orwell-1984\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">Primero, la rebeli\u00f3n; despu\u00e9s, el futuro: la improbable g\u00e9nesis de <em>1984<\/em>, la obra magna de George Orwell<\/a><\/span><\/li><li><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/Antonio-Scurati-Pablo-Simon-Mussolini-Fascismo\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\">\u00bfPuede volver el fascismo?<\/a><\/span><\/li><li><span 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6 minutos

11 de agosto de 2020. En plena crisis sanitaria provocada por la covid-19, una mujer rebusca comida entre la basura desperdigada por las calles de Caracas, Venezuela. Crédito: Getty Images.

No lo habíamos planeado. Una mañana estaba recorriendo, junto con un equipo de Univision, las calles de Caracas en el barrio del Chacao cuando pasamos al lado de un camión de basura. Entonces vi a tres hombres que se empinaban en la parte trasera del camión tratando de rescatar un poco de comida entre la basura. Movían, desesperados, los plásticos que encontraban para identificar algo comestible mientras el camión amenazaba con arrancar. Un empleado de limpieza, que acompañaba al chófer del camión, los veía sin ninguna emoción. Paramos la camioneta en que nos transportábamos y bajé corriendo. Saqué mi celular y me puse a grabar.

«Tenemos hambre», me dijo un adolescente con una camiseta negra y gorra beis, al momento de abalanzarse al camión por más comida. Luchaba por los desperdicios junto a otras dos personas. Un joven de camiseta negra y gorro blanco se chupaba los dedos de su mano derecha, llenos de lo que alguna vez fue un pastel, o torta, como le dicen en Venezuela. «Hay que cambiar de presidente porque no podemos vivir así —me comentó sin que yo le preguntara nada. Y siguió—: Somos gente de la calle, pero queremos sacar al presidente. Lo queremos sacar; no podemos vivir más así, comiendo la basura. Voy a treinta y seis años y es la primera vez en mi vida que yo hago esto por mis hijos y por mí». «¿Cada cuánto tienen que hacer esto?», le pregunté. «Todos los días —me dijo—, porque ahora un sueldo ya no alcanza pa nada».

El camión se fue por la calle, pero él seguía hablando. «Como la basura por primera vez en mi vida. Mi nombre es Jesús pa que lo manden a YouTube, pa Instagram, pa donde sea. Pero no podemos seguir más en esto». «¿Qué le quisiera decir a Maduro?»: «Cónchale, Maduro, acuérdate que Venezuela es bonita y que Venezuela somos todos. Presidente, me disculpa, pero usted como presidente no sirve… Somos de la calle, pero usted como presidente no sirve. Quiero que se vaya del país… Son veinte años que tenemos de pobreza». 

La elocuencia y claridad de Jesús me impactó. Su hambre y su dolor eran reales. También era innegable la humillación que sentía al tener que comer basura.

Ahí supe que ese era un video que le quería mostrar al dictador Nicolás Maduro al día siguiente, durante nuestra entrevista. Estábamos a unos veinte minutos del Palacio de Miraflores y la calle exhibía el terrible fracaso de la revolución bolivariana. Su promesa de ayudar a los más desamparados se había esfumado, frente a mí, en ese camión de basura.

Inmediatamente envié el video a uno de nuestros productores en Miami para que lo tuvieran listo al transmitir la entrevista al día siguiente. Pero jamás me imaginé que el régimen de Maduro nos censuraría la entrevista, confiscaría nuestras cámaras y detendría a todo el equipo de Univision.

Fue precisamente después de ver ese video cuando Maduro se levantó y dio por terminada la entrevista. Nos quedamos sin nada. Sin embargo, como ese video ya lo habíamos enviado a Univision en Miami, sí pudimos mostrarlo públicamente como el detonante que dio fin al encuentro en el Palacio de Miraflores. Las acusaciones de Jesús eran gravísimas. Culpaba a Maduro de la hambruna que vivía el país y le pedía que dejara el poder. La entrevista no se podía ver, pero el video del camión de basura sí. Y se hizo viral. Desde luego, en la jungla donde las redes sociales se cruzan con el chavismo, hubo quienes sospecharon del origen de nuestro video y hasta sugirieron que se trataba de un montaje. Pero todo había sido cierto.

El reportero Daniel Lozano, del periódico español El Mundo, fue a buscar a Jesús en las calles de Caracas unos días después de la entrevista, y lo encontró, a pesar de que hay días en que no tiene donde dormir. Se llama Robert Jesús Guerrero y se gana la vida reciclando basura para darles de comer a sus dos hijos, Arantxa y Shubirut. Incluso se dejó fotografiar con su pareja.

«Lo primero que me encontré fue al camión de la basura sacando las bolsas de la panadería, me atreví a curiosear y saqué unos dulces, con tanta hambre que me los comí —le explicó Jesús al reportero de El Mundo sobre el día en que lo grabé con mi celular—. Llegaron unos señores a entrevistarme y les di el voto de confianza para contarles lo que yo siento sobre este país».

Maduro podía esconder y hasta destruir nuestra entrevista, pero no la diaria tragedia que viven muchos venezolanos como Jesús.

Aun así, recibí montones de críticas. Me decían que ese tipo de imágenes se pueden ver en cualquier país de América Latina. Recibí, también, fotografías de personas buscando comida entre la basura en la ciudad de Los Ángeles. Y todo eso es válido. Yo también lo he visto en muchos lugares del mundo. Pero el video de Jesús con el camión de basura fue distinto porque rompía la narrativa oficial del gobierno de Maduro de que la revolución había mejorado el nivel de vida de los venezolanos más pobres. A pesar de las infladas estadísticas gubernamentales, el hambre se sentía brutalmente a solo unos kilómetros del Palacio de Miraflores.

Lo más sorprendente, sin embargo, es que ese fue un video que Maduro no quiso seguir viendo durante la entrevista. De manera absurda, casi cómica, trata de taparlo con una de sus manos para evitar que lo capten las cámaras de televisión. Al darse cuenta de que no puede hacerlo, se da la media vuelta y se va.

Maduro podía censurar una entrevista en el Palacio de Miraflores. Pero no podía ocultar la realidad ni el hambre en Venezuela.





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