Entrevistas

María Ospina: «No se puede concebir la historia colombiana sin pensar en los efectos de la guerra en la naturaleza»

Una perra que ignora las indicaciones de la mujer que la ha adoptado, un tángara migrante que cada año cruza campos, ríos y ciudades observando su transformación vertiginosa; una hembra de puercoespín o un escarabajo son algunos de los «animales no humanos» protagonistas de «Solo un poco aquí» (Random House), la novela con la que la colombiana María Ospina (Bogotá, 1977) ha ganado el premio sor Juana Inés de la Cruz. En ella aborda desde los límites de la comunicación con otras especies al impacto de la guerra en la naturaleza, temas que también trata en esta conversación con el escritor Gabi Martínez, a quien le admite que, cuando observa el conflicto entre Palestina e Israel, también piensa en los burros que viven allí.

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diez a\u00f1os que <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/219211-maria-ospina-pizano\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Mar\u00eda Ospina (Bogot\u00e1, 1977)<\/a><\/span> vio en su balc\u00f3n a una t\u00e1ngara escarlata. Pasaba una temporada en Bogot\u00e1 antes de regresar a Estados Unidos, donde vive, y la proximidad del ave la proyect\u00f3 a su infancia, cuando sal\u00eda con su abuela a caminar por el altiplano cundiboyacense. \u00abMi abuela era una gran caminanta. Ten\u00eda unas amigas con las que se iba a caminar por toda Colombia, Ecuador\u2026 y a veces nos llevaba. Esta novela emerge de muchas d\u00e9cadas de estar en el campo, de convivir con perros, de una vida montaraz\u2026 y de preguntarme c\u00f3mo mirar a otros seres, a los \u00e1rboles tambi\u00e9n\u00bb.<\/p><p>De ni\u00f1a y adolescente, Ospina altern\u00f3 la vida en la metr\u00f3polis con frecuentes visitas a la finca de sus abuelos, en el valle altoandino, tres horas al norte de Bogot\u00e1, donde desarroll\u00f3 una conexi\u00f3n singular, sobre todo, con los p\u00e1jaros. Y la mantuvo cuando, a los 18 a\u00f1os, viaj\u00f3 a Providence, Rhode Island, para estudiar Historia en la Universidad de Brown. \u00abColombia estaba en un momento terrible y yo y otros de mi generaci\u00f3n, nos fuimos\u00bb.\u00a0<\/p><p>Luego vivi\u00f3 en Nueva York. Ahora reside en New Haven. Y vuela constantemente a Colombia. Como la t\u00e1ngara. \u00abMigra todo el tiempo, igual que yo\u00bb, se dijo Ospina en el balc\u00f3n. El paralelismo deton\u00f3 un alud de interrogantes y asociaciones\u2026 en la misma \u00e9poca que fue madre. Pronto empez\u00f3 a leer a su hijo cuentos rebosantes de distintas naturalezas. \u00abLa literatura infantil se mete con toda libertad en el tema del mundo animal, y lo explora y piensa en un mundo interespecies, y no pide disculpas por hacer eso\u00bb. De modo que fue m\u00e1s all\u00e1. \u00abEmpec\u00e9 a entrenar el o\u00eddo y la mirada atendiendo a los animales no humanos y a los \u00e1rboles y las plantas. 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style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/107432-gabi-martinez\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Gabi Mart\u00ednez<\/a><\/span>:<\/strong> Quiz\u00e1 te lo preguntaste porque, en los \u00faltimos a\u00f1os, la <em>literNatura<\/em> escrita en espa\u00f1ol parece asociarse sobre todo al universo infantil o a lo buc\u00f3lico.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Hay una gran falla en la educaci\u00f3n y el entretenimiento que se da en las sociedades urbanas, provocando una alienaci\u00f3n que hace que la gente se vaya alejando del resto de animales. Esto se debe al peso del pensamiento antropoc\u00e9ntrico occidental sostenido por una ciencia que hasta hace poco plante\u00f3 al animal como un aut\u00f3mata. Esa ciencia no quiere mirar al animal cuando te mira de vuelta.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Tal y como hablas, pod\u00edas haber escrito un ensayo. Pero sali\u00f3 novela.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Como investigadora y profesora he trabajado el tema de la intersecci\u00f3n entre cultura e Historia en el caso colombiano. Me interesa mucho la figura del testigo: c\u00f3mo se narra una historia muy complicada de violencias. Cuando me empec\u00e9 a interesar por el testigo no humano, se cruzaron ambos proyectos. Durante el doctorado me volqu\u00e9 en <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/escritoras-latinoamericanas\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">la literatura latinoamericana<\/a><\/span> y, bueno, la Historia se cuenta a trav\u00e9s de la ficci\u00f3n, esto ya lo dec\u00eda <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/gabriel-garcia-marquez\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Gabriel Garc\u00eda M\u00e1rquez<\/a><\/span>. Adem\u00e1s, hab\u00eda le\u00eddo <em>El Coloquio de los perros,<\/em> de Cervantes. Ah\u00ed me dije: es posible hablar de esto, y de esta forma. El proyecto de mi libro era mostrar que no podemos concebir la historia de las migraciones, el mal llamado desarrollo, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/capitalismo-jeannette-von-wolfersdorff\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">el capitalismo<\/a><\/span>, sin insertar las relaciones entre especies. No es posible escribir sobre extractivismo, drogas, fronteras, proyectos de desarrollo y todo tipo de asuntos supuestamente humanos sin incluir al resto de seres.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"yrofhxw\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00ab\u00bfT\u00fa crees que entre los que cubren la guerra en Palestina alguien ha hablado de los burros? (...) \u00bfO de que ahorita est\u00e1n cruzando aves por encima de Gaza o llegando al \u00e1rbol que era suyo y ya no est\u00e1? Me tiembla la voz cuando digo esto, de coraje y de dolor (...) Para m\u00ed son las preguntas fundamentales de la pol\u00edtica y de la Historia\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"w1hyoig\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> El informe final de la Comisi\u00f3n de la Verdad sobre <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/hector-abad-faciolince-por-david-trueba-salvo-mi-corazon-todo-esta-bien\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">el conflicto armado en Colombia<\/a><\/span> dedica mucho espacio a se\u00f1alar c\u00f3mo ha afectado la violencia a la naturaleza. En tu libro, describes por ejemplo c\u00f3mo impacta el ruido de las explosiones en los animales.<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Es que no se puede concebir la historia colombiana sin pensar en los efectos de la guerra en la naturaleza. Esa comprensi\u00f3n la tienen tambi\u00e9n los campesinos, las comunidades ind\u00edgenas, pero nunca ha sido la comprensi\u00f3n hegem\u00f3nica. Ahora est\u00e1 un poco m\u00e1s en la agenda hablar de naturaleza y de otras especies pero\u2026 \u00bfT\u00fa crees que entre los que cubren <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/gaza-israel-hamas-guerra-dave-eggers\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">la guerra en Palestina<\/a><\/span> alguien ha hablado de los burros? Yo veo en todas las fotos a burros cargando a gente en sus carretas pero \u00bfalguien ha hablado de ellos? \u00bfO de que ahorita est\u00e1n cruzando aves por encima de Gaza o llegando al \u00e1rbol que era suyo y ya no est\u00e1? Me tiembla la voz cuando digo esto, de coraje y de dolor, porque esas preguntas muy poca gente las hace, y para m\u00ed son las preguntas fundamentales de la pol\u00edtica y de la 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Cr\u00e9dito: Diego Lafuente.\",\"link_to\":\"none\",\"link\":{\"is_external\":\"\",\"url\":\"\"},\"view\":\"traditional\",\"section_style_image\":\"\",\"space\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"opacity\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":1},\"hover_animation\":\"\",\"image_border_border\":\"\",\"image_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"image_border_color\":\"\",\"image_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"image_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"image_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"image\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"iegyuq6\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p style=\\\"text-align: right;\\\">Mar\u00eda Ospina Pizano. 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Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Los perros tambi\u00e9n son muy importantes en el libro.<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Yo ven\u00eda muy interesada en los perros callejeros bogotanos. Me llamaba la atenci\u00f3n la ausencia de esos perros en Estados Unidos. Durante la pandemia adoptamos un perro en Colombia y lo llevamos a Estados Unidos. Mientras camin\u00e1bamos con \u00e9l por los bosques buscando aves que ven\u00edan de Colombia, retom\u00e9 ideas cercanas a los perros.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Uno de los episodios m\u00e1s memorables cuenta la historia de una perra adoptada en la que se reflejan muy bien las diferencias entre sus intereses y los de la mujer que la adopta. En ocasiones, la adopci\u00f3n se percibe como una forma de ego\u00edsmo.<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Por una parte, me interesaba abordar qu\u00e9 quiere decir cambiar tan radicalmente de lugar, ir de la ciudad al campo. Me interesaba qu\u00e9 siente una perra en ese cambio de la calle de Bogot\u00e1 a la monta\u00f1a altoandina. Qu\u00e9 otro universo emerge para ella. \u00bfA\u00f1ora la ciudad y la calle? \u00bfQu\u00e9 pasa tambi\u00e9n con la noci\u00f3n de libertad? Fascina esa soberan\u00eda de los perros callejeros al caminar por Bogot\u00e1, esa manera que tienen de anunciar que no son animales de compa\u00f1\u00eda, que son otra cosa, que con ellos no sirve nuestra relaci\u00f3n paternalista. Qu\u00e9 pasa cuando la perra acaba siendo supuestamente salvada por esta mujer que no solo la quiere salvar sino que tiene ese inter\u00e9s como muy egoc\u00e9ntrico de ser buena pero tambi\u00e9n, de manera contradictoria, est\u00e1 profundamente interesada en la amistad con otra especie. Yo quer\u00eda retornar al bosque, preguntarme por el hogar, \u00bfpodemos reconstruirlo o no? Y preguntarme qu\u00e9 proyectamos sobre <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/nacio-siendo-perro-murio-siendo-caballero\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">un animal al que pedimos que nos salve de nuestras propias crisis<\/a><\/span>, de nuestra soledad, de nuestra sensaci\u00f3n de inutilidad, de nuestras ansiedades.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> \u00bfPreguntas inspiradas en tu propia experiencia?<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Yo tengo un perro, claro, y hay preguntas que me hago constantemente. Preguntas sobre la asimetr\u00eda de poder que tengo con mi amigo, con quien sostengo una profunda amistad.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> \u00c9l se llama\u2026<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Coqu\u00ed. Era hijo de la perra de una vecina que no sab\u00eda qu\u00e9 hacer con \u00e9l. Es un terrier peque\u00f1o con un lado indomable que me encanta. Ven\u00eda con ese nombre, Coqu\u00ed, que es una rana del Caribe, el animal oficial de Puerto Rico. Caminando con \u00e9l he visto que su experiencia de vivir el bosque es mucho m\u00e1s amplia que la m\u00eda porque huele m\u00e1s, porque entiende de otras maneras el mundo de la superficie y el que est\u00e1 debajo, porque oye diferente. Concibe el bosque desde otro lugar.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"rfixi8o\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abYo quer\u00eda retornar al bosque, preguntarme por el hogar, \u00bfpodemos reconstruirlo o no? Y preguntarme qu\u00e9 proyectamos sobre un animal al que pedimos que nos salve de nuestras propias crisis, de nuestra soledad, de nuestra sensaci\u00f3n de inutilidad, de nuestras ansiedades\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"1pl5kb0\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/thomasberry.org\/\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">El naturalista Thomas Berry<\/a><\/span> habl\u00f3 de la necesidad urgente de emprender una Gran Conversaci\u00f3n entre los humanos y el resto de especies, sobre todo si queremos que la nuestra sobreviva. De todas formas, \u00bfhasta qu\u00e9 punto sirven las palabras para mantener esa Gran Conversaci\u00f3n?\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> \u00bfC\u00f3mo traducir el sonido de un ave? Ah\u00ed aparecen los l\u00edmites de la traducci\u00f3n. Este tambi\u00e9n es un libro sobre cu\u00e1les son los l\u00edmites al escribir al animal no humano, c\u00f3mo meterlo en los l\u00edmites de una p\u00e1gina. Le\u00ed un art\u00edculo en <em>The Atlantic<\/em> sobre un proyecto de inteligencia artificial que <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/ciencia-y-tecnologia\/339605-libro-como-hablar-balleno-9788430626564\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">intenta descifrar el lenguaje de las ballenas<\/a><\/span>. Planteaba que, si eventualmente se les pudiera hablar, \u00bfqu\u00e9 les dir\u00edamos? Unos cient\u00edficos opinaban que no deber\u00edamos decirles nada. Otros, que les pidamos perd\u00f3n. Pero, \u00bfc\u00f3mo traduces la palabra perd\u00f3n?\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Llama la atenci\u00f3n c\u00f3mo abordas el pensamiento de los animales. No lo haces de forma directa sino diciendo \u00abtal vez\u00bb pens\u00f3, \u00abquiz\u00e1s\u00bb quisiera\u2026<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Es la gran pregunta \u00e9tica: c\u00f3mo hablar de otras especies y de nuestra responsabilidad de sentir curiosidad por otros seres, como dice Donna Haraway. C\u00f3mo hablar de c\u00f3mo nos miran ellos a nosotros sin caer en la mirada imperialista que asegura que puedes hablar por seres que tienen ontolog\u00edas y modos de concebir el mundo tan distintos a los nuestros. Quiero respetar esa diferencia, investigar lo que implicar\u00eda dar voz al animal no humano pero desde la comprensi\u00f3n de que el otro est\u00e1 ah\u00ed con una complejidad, racionalidad e inteligencia distinta y no del todo accesible. Es un testigo soberano que yo no puedo descifrar completamente. En esta novela quiero complicar la mirada antropoc\u00e9ntrica que simplifica al animal o lo considera inferior, pero a la vez proponer su acompa\u00f1amiento. Eso solo me lo permite hacer la ficci\u00f3n: especular y preguntarme por las dimensiones \u00e9ticas y pol\u00edticas de ese acto. Me permite inventar una narradora humana que vuela con un ave por el Caribe y el Dari\u00e9n y en el proceso se pregunta por lo que supone esa experiencia para ambas. La novela tambi\u00e9n busca expresar la dificultad de contestar esas preguntas.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"y9vo1la\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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Cr\u00e9dito: Diego Lafuente.\",\"link_to\":\"none\",\"link\":{\"is_external\":\"\",\"url\":\"\"},\"view\":\"traditional\",\"section_style_image\":\"\",\"space\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"opacity\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":1},\"hover_animation\":\"\",\"image_border_border\":\"\",\"image_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"image_border_color\":\"\",\"image_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"image_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"image_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"image\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"6e4z1uw\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p style=\\\"text-align: right;\\\">Mar\u00eda Ospina Pizano. Cr\u00e9dito: Diego 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Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> \u00bfY en qu\u00e9 punto est\u00e1 la conversaci\u00f3n sobre naturaleza entre los propios humanos? A fin de cuentas, el libro lo has escrito para\u2026 nosotros. \u00bfCrees que los relatos, el arte, pueden cambiar alguna inercia? T\u00fa acabas de ganar un premio, parece que hay una apuesta m\u00e1s decidida por visibilizar historias protagonizadas por seres no humanos.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> La funci\u00f3n de la palabra es humilde, dada la fuerza del capital, pero es fundamental. Yo creo en una literatura, un cine, unas expresiones culturales que est\u00e1n ah\u00ed para construir una sensibilidad que trasciende la racionalidad capitalista de la utilidad, del dinero, de la explotaci\u00f3n de todos los otros seres. Creo en la posibilidad de narrar el mundo desde un lugar l\u00edrico, desde la fuerza de la sorpresa, la especulaci\u00f3n, la ternura, la inquietud y la pregunta. Nunca pens\u00e9 que tanta gente fuera a querer leer mi libro. Pens\u00e9 que los que no estaban interesados en los animales no humanos ni se acercar\u00edan, pero no ha sido el caso, y mucha gente me ha dicho: ahora miro distinto. Ha sido lindo o\u00edr que lectores y lectoras se despertaron un poco a la idea de ver otras especies, que pasaron de un mundo muy centrado en lo humano a pensar en la ara\u00f1a que construye su tela en el techo, y considerarla de otra forma.<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Adem\u00e1s de por t\u00e1ngaras y perras, tu novela est\u00e1 protagonizada por una hembra de puercoesp\u00edn, cucarronas\u2026 \u00bfpor qu\u00e9 las elegiste?<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Los otros animales llegaron a la p\u00e1gina mientras escrib\u00eda en el bosque altoandino. Yo hab\u00eda crecido con cucarrones en la infancia, (un tipo de escarabajo)\u2026 pero en medio de la escritura de este libro me top\u00e9 con un diciembre muy lluvioso que trajo un nacimiento masivo de escarabajos: estaba leyendo y me ca\u00edan encima de la p\u00e1gina. Y entend\u00ed que el escarabajo me invitaba a pensar en el subsuelo, en la historia que guarda y revela la tierra. Tambi\u00e9n en la vida de los insectos, que son animales m\u00e1s dif\u00edciles para nosotros de antropomorfizar. La hembra de puercoesp\u00edn est\u00e1 basada en una historia real sobre un puercoesp\u00edn que fue alimentado por una mujer que estaba lactando a un ni\u00f1o en ese bosque que frecuento. Ella me invit\u00f3 a explorar c\u00f3mo se complica el estatus de animal salvaje de ciertos animales y la relaci\u00f3n de cuidado y cercan\u00eda que algunas personas construyen desde hace siglos con animales silvestres en el mundo rural.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"e9tc7mm\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abDe diversas comunidades ind\u00edgenas emerge una tradici\u00f3n que propone que nuestras comunidades \u00e9ticas, espirituales, locales, son interespecie. No podemos entendernos sin esa imbricaci\u00f3n\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"z0on13q\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Los chamanes conectan de un modo m\u00e1s directo con los animales de su entorno. En Colombia son muy importantes. \u00bfTe ha influido su tradici\u00f3n?<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Llevo muchos a\u00f1os investigando sobre las representaciones de la selva y eso me llev\u00f3 a interesarme en las pr\u00e1cticas cham\u00e1nicas. En los \u00faltimos a\u00f1os he aprendido mucho de un cham\u00e1n peruano cuyas ense\u00f1anzas fueron vitales para terminar este libro. De diversas comunidades ind\u00edgenas emerge una tradici\u00f3n que propone que nuestras comunidades \u00e9ticas, espirituales, locales, son interespecie. No podemos entendernos sin esa imbricaci\u00f3n. Me interesa tambi\u00e9n la forma en que algunas plantas, como la ayahuasca, hacen posible una comprensi\u00f3n de ese continuo entre humanos y otros seres animales y vegetales que la tradici\u00f3n occidental suele negar. Creo que mi inter\u00e9s por estos temas viene tambi\u00e9n de crecer en el campo oyendo historias de la tradici\u00f3n oral que hablan de esas relaciones, aunque desde el espacio andino. Son historias que aluden a unos legados antiguos en los que se privilegia la relaci\u00f3n entre especies y se le otorga subjetividad al animal no humano\u2026 miradas que el discurso occidental cristiano quiso alguna vez prohibir.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> \u00bfPor eso se ha escrito tan poca <em>literNatura<\/em> en espa\u00f1ol en las \u00faltimas d\u00e9cadas?\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> No creo que sea as\u00ed. Hay una enorme tradici\u00f3n latinoamericana de reflexi\u00f3n sobre la naturaleza que lleva muchos siglos. Pienso en todas las novelas sobre la selva, La vor\u00e1gine y muchas otras. En los cuentos de Horacio Quiroga se cuestiona la explotaci\u00f3n humana de bosques y animales y se explora la pregunta de la mirada animal de formas fascinantes. Jos\u00e9 Mar\u00eda Arguedas reflexiona sobre estas relaciones y tensiones en el espacio ind\u00edgena y campesino de los Andes. Jo\u00e3o Guimar\u00e3es Rosa, en Brasil, tiene relatos como <em>Mi t\u00edo el jaguaret\u00e9,<\/em> que es sobre un hombre que se va volviendo jaguar y su lenguaje va cambiando\u2026 Es otro ejemplo maravilloso de c\u00f3mo la tradici\u00f3n ind\u00edgena entra en la tradici\u00f3n literaria para cuestionar el antropocentrismo. Tenemos que considerar incluso a <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/gabriel-garcia-marquez\/la-magia-de-gabo-sigue-viva-en-agosto-nos-vemos\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Garc\u00eda M\u00e1rquez<\/a><\/span>, que en sus libros trabaja la inundaci\u00f3n, la sequ\u00eda y el extractivismo. Pienso tambi\u00e9n en <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/rosario-castellanos-feminismo\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Rosario Castellanos en M\u00e9xico<\/a><\/span>\u2026 Y estoy nombrando solo a pocos.<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Entonces, \u00bfpor qu\u00e9 tem\u00edas que tu historia no encontrara lectores?<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> La gran duda con esta narraci\u00f3n era c\u00f3mo producir relato cuando tengo protagonistas no humanos a quienes les doy una personalidad pero reh\u00faso adentrarme con certeza en su psicolog\u00eda. C\u00f3mo hago para que esto no sea descripci\u00f3n decimon\u00f3nica rom\u00e1ntica del paisaje. Y qu\u00e9 hago para contar al animal no humano sin proyectar emociones humanas. C\u00f3mo respetar la distancia \u00e9tica entre el humano y el animal que no conozco del todo.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> En cualquier caso, est\u00e1s hablando de ficciones y de autores muertos. Y es evidente que, en lengua espa\u00f1ola, casi no se ha abordado la naturaleza desde el ensayo o el periodismo literario, los g\u00e9neros m\u00e1s caracter\u00edsticos del <em>nature writing.<\/em> \u00bfHay miedo a represalias?<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> En ficci\u00f3n y poes\u00eda s\u00ed se ha tratado el tema de la explotaci\u00f3n de la naturaleza y se han celebrado y defendido las dimensiones m\u00e1s que humanas. Creo que en Latinoam\u00e9rica la literatura se presenta como el mejor lugar para defender esto. 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Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Este a\u00f1o, Colombia celebra el centenario de una de sus novelas emblema, <em><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/tematicas\/336290-ebook-la-voragine-9780593313459\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">La vor\u00e1gine<\/a><\/span>,<\/em> en la que la naturaleza es absoluta protagonista.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Es un texto que ense\u00f1o mucho, porque si soy algo, soy docente. La novela tuvo el inter\u00e9s de narrar la historia brutal de esa frontera que es la Amazonia colombiana, y se convirti\u00f3 en la novela nacional junto con <em><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/gabriel-garcia-marquez\/monologo-de-isabel-viendo-llover-en-macondo\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Cien a\u00f1os de soledad<\/a><\/span><\/em>. La selva es el lugar sobre el cual se proyectan todo tipo de ansiedades y deseos culturales y pol\u00edticos en un pa\u00eds como Colombia. La selva siempre ha sido el lugar al que la cultura colombiana regresa, como en una especie de peregrinaje. Y por eso ahora <em>La vor\u00e1gine<\/em> vuelve a emerger.<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> Apoyada por las instituciones oficiales, que han decretado un a\u00f1o <em>La vor\u00e1gine<\/em> subrayando su valor de denuncia contra terratenientes, empresas extractivistas...\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Es una paradoja feliz que en un pa\u00eds tan marcado por el extractivismo esta novela siga ocupando un rol tan importante. Esto coincide con que la literatura y el cine han retornado a pensar lo rural con m\u00e1s fuerza que en d\u00e9cadas anteriores. Hay muchas pel\u00edculas colombianas que narran las historias del extractivismo, de la explotaci\u00f3n de la naturaleza, de la defensa del territorio en el espacio rural. Podr\u00edamos decir que son herederas de la tradici\u00f3n h\u00edbrida de documentar y ficcionalizar que inaugura <em>La Vor\u00e1gine<\/em>. Pienso en <em>El vuelco del cangrejo, La sirga, La tierra y la sombra,<\/em> entre otras. La cultura colombiana sigue reflexionando sobre naturaleza porque el tema de la tenencia de la tierra, de la miner\u00eda, de la explotaci\u00f3n maderera, de los efectos de la agroindustria siguen siendo centrales para la sociedad.<\/p><p><strong>Gabi Mart\u00ednez:<\/strong> \u00bfY sobre los animales en la ciudad? Varios de ellos son protagonistas en tu novela. Bogot\u00e1 est\u00e1 dividida en estratos con grandes diferencias sociales. \u00bfHay animales distintos seg\u00fan los estratos?\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Mar\u00eda Ospina:<\/strong> Yo no creo que se pueda afirmar que las diferencias de clase determinan totalmente el tipo de animales con los que la gente convive. Como en muchos lugares, en Bogot\u00e1 este deseo cruza todas las clases sociales, aunque el dinero pueda determinar c\u00f3mo se da esta interacci\u00f3n. All\u00ed hay iniciativas muy bonitas de cuidado a los animales que surgen de la calle y de barrios muy empobrecidos. Una de las cosas que quise explorar en la novela es la complejidad de las relaciones de amistad, dependencia y cuidado entre perros y humanos en diferentes espacios considerados como hogar. Por otra parte, en muchas ciudades y pueblos la gente sigue queriendo domesticar animales como loros, papagayos, tortugas, monos, que son atrapados y obligados a vivir en cautiverio en el espacio dom\u00e9stico. Me parece importante que pensemos en ese desplazamiento forzado. Es un tema que para m\u00ed tiene que ver con la justicia, con las relaciones de poder que establecemos con seres no humanos, con la idea del hogar y del testigo, con la historia de la violencia.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"jjq5tq8\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><strong>OTROS\u00a0CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/no-es-un-rio-de-selva-almada-booker-prize\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">\u00abNo es un r\u00edo\u00bb, de Selva Almada: la novela que estaba all\u00ed, esperando<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/sara-barquinero-los-escorpiones-lumen\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Sara Barquinero: \u00abSoy mejor persona cuando miro al horror\u00bb<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><\/span><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/mar-garcia-puig-otra-madre-loca-la-historia-de-los-vertebrados\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Mar Garc\u00eda Puig: otra madre loca<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/sara-torres-perder-es-vivir-lo-que-hay\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Sara Torres: perder es vivir<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/ottessa-moshfegh-sabina-urraca-mcglue\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Ottessa Moshfegh: \u00abNunca quiero saber nada de los autores a los que leo, no quiero ver ni una foto suya\u00bb<\/a><\/span><span><u><\/u><\/span><\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"0\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"20\",\"right\":\"20\",\"bottom\":\"20\",\"left\":\"20\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"solid\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"1\",\"right\":\"1\",\"bottom\":\"1\",\"left\":\"1\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"20\",\"right\":\"20\",\"bottom\":\"20\",\"left\":\"20\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"kpzet67\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"section-stretched\",\"layout\":\"full_width\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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20 minutos
María Ospina Pizano. Crédito: Diego Lafuente.

María Ospina Pizano. Crédito: Diego Lafuente.

Hace diez años que María Ospina (Bogotá, 1977) vio en su balcón a una tángara escarlata. Pasaba una temporada en Bogotá antes de regresar a Estados Unidos, donde vive, y la proximidad del ave la proyectó a su infancia, cuando salía con su abuela a caminar por el altiplano cundiboyacense. «Mi abuela era una gran caminanta. Tenía unas amigas con las que se iba a caminar por toda Colombia, Ecuador… y a veces nos llevaba. Esta novela emerge de muchas décadas de estar en el campo, de convivir con perros, de una vida montaraz… y de preguntarme cómo mirar a otros seres, a los árboles también».

De niña y adolescente, Ospina alternó la vida en la metrópolis con frecuentes visitas a la finca de sus abuelos, en el valle altoandino, tres horas al norte de Bogotá, donde desarrolló una conexión singular, sobre todo, con los pájaros. Y la mantuvo cuando, a los 18 años, viajó a Providence, Rhode Island, para estudiar Historia en la Universidad de Brown. «Colombia estaba en un momento terrible y yo y otros de mi generación, nos fuimos». 

Luego vivió en Nueva York. Ahora reside en New Haven. Y vuela constantemente a Colombia. Como la tángara. «Migra todo el tiempo, igual que yo», se dijo Ospina en el balcón. El paralelismo detonó un alud de interrogantes y asociaciones… en la misma época que fue madre. Pronto empezó a leer a su hijo cuentos rebosantes de distintas naturalezas. «La literatura infantil se mete con toda libertad en el tema del mundo animal, y lo explora y piensa en un mundo interespecies, y no pide disculpas por hacer eso». De modo que fue más allá. «Empecé a entrenar el oído y la mirada atendiendo a los animales no humanos y a los árboles y las plantas. Y pensé en cómo narrar el viaje, el hecho de emigrar. Qué significa el hogar, el territorio». Hasta culminar Solo un poco aquí (Random House, 2024), la novela protagonizada por varios animales que forman parte de nuestras vidas, los veamos o no, y que le ha permitido ganar el premio sor Juana Inés de la Cruz, uno de los más prestigiosos en lengua española. 

Aunque al principio dudó sobre si podría escribir el libro que imaginaba. Quería entrar en la cabeza de esos protagonistas y expresar su mirada del mundo. «Me pregunté: ¿es posible que pueda narrar esto en clave adulta y que haya lectores?».

Gabi Martínez: Quizá te lo preguntaste porque, en los últimos años, la literNatura escrita en español parece asociarse sobre todo al universo infantil o a lo bucólico. 

María Ospina: Hay una gran falla en la educación y el entretenimiento que se da en las sociedades urbanas, provocando una alienación que hace que la gente se vaya alejando del resto de animales. Esto se debe al peso del pensamiento antropocéntrico occidental sostenido por una ciencia que hasta hace poco planteó al animal como un autómata. Esa ciencia no quiere mirar al animal cuando te mira de vuelta. 

Gabi Martínez: Tal y como hablas, podías haber escrito un ensayo. Pero salió novela. 

María Ospina: Como investigadora y profesora he trabajado el tema de la intersección entre cultura e Historia en el caso colombiano. Me interesa mucho la figura del testigo: cómo se narra una historia muy complicada de violencias. Cuando me empecé a interesar por el testigo no humano, se cruzaron ambos proyectos. Durante el doctorado me volqué en la literatura latinoamericana y, bueno, la Historia se cuenta a través de la ficción, esto ya lo decía Gabriel García Márquez. Además, había leído El Coloquio de los perros, de Cervantes. Ahí me dije: es posible hablar de esto, y de esta forma. El proyecto de mi libro era mostrar que no podemos concebir la historia de las migraciones, el mal llamado desarrollo, el capitalismo, sin insertar las relaciones entre especies. No es posible escribir sobre extractivismo, drogas, fronteras, proyectos de desarrollo y todo tipo de asuntos supuestamente humanos sin incluir al resto de seres.

«¿Tú crees que entre los que cubren la guerra en Palestina alguien ha hablado de los burros? (...) ¿O de que ahorita están cruzando aves por encima de Gaza o llegando al árbol que era suyo y ya no está? Me tiembla la voz cuando digo esto, de coraje y de dolor (...) Para mí son las preguntas fundamentales de la política y de la Historia».

Gabi Martínez: El informe final de la Comisión de la Verdad sobre el conflicto armado en Colombia dedica mucho espacio a señalar cómo ha afectado la violencia a la naturaleza. En tu libro, describes por ejemplo cómo impacta el ruido de las explosiones en los animales.

María Ospina: Es que no se puede concebir la historia colombiana sin pensar en los efectos de la guerra en la naturaleza. Esa comprensión la tienen también los campesinos, las comunidades indígenas, pero nunca ha sido la comprensión hegemónica. Ahora está un poco más en la agenda hablar de naturaleza y de otras especies pero… ¿Tú crees que entre los que cubren la guerra en Palestina alguien ha hablado de los burros? Yo veo en todas las fotos a burros cargando a gente en sus carretas pero ¿alguien ha hablado de ellos? ¿O de que ahorita están cruzando aves por encima de Gaza o llegando al árbol que era suyo y ya no está? Me tiembla la voz cuando digo esto, de coraje y de dolor, porque esas preguntas muy poca gente las hace, y para mí son las preguntas fundamentales de la política y de la Historia.

María Ospina Pizano. Crédito: Diego Lafuente.

María Ospina Pizano. Crédito: Diego Lafuente.

Gabi Martínez: Los perros también son muy importantes en el libro.

María Ospina: Yo venía muy interesada en los perros callejeros bogotanos. Me llamaba la atención la ausencia de esos perros en Estados Unidos. Durante la pandemia adoptamos un perro en Colombia y lo llevamos a Estados Unidos. Mientras caminábamos con él por los bosques buscando aves que venían de Colombia, retomé ideas cercanas a los perros. 

Gabi Martínez: Uno de los episodios más memorables cuenta la historia de una perra adoptada en la que se reflejan muy bien las diferencias entre sus intereses y los de la mujer que la adopta. En ocasiones, la adopción se percibe como una forma de egoísmo.

María Ospina: Por una parte, me interesaba abordar qué quiere decir cambiar tan radicalmente de lugar, ir de la ciudad al campo. Me interesaba qué siente una perra en ese cambio de la calle de Bogotá a la montaña altoandina. Qué otro universo emerge para ella. ¿Añora la ciudad y la calle? ¿Qué pasa también con la noción de libertad? Fascina esa soberanía de los perros callejeros al caminar por Bogotá, esa manera que tienen de anunciar que no son animales de compañía, que son otra cosa, que con ellos no sirve nuestra relación paternalista. Qué pasa cuando la perra acaba siendo supuestamente salvada por esta mujer que no solo la quiere salvar sino que tiene ese interés como muy egocéntrico de ser buena pero también, de manera contradictoria, está profundamente interesada en la amistad con otra especie. Yo quería retornar al bosque, preguntarme por el hogar, ¿podemos reconstruirlo o no? Y preguntarme qué proyectamos sobre un animal al que pedimos que nos salve de nuestras propias crisis, de nuestra soledad, de nuestra sensación de inutilidad, de nuestras ansiedades. 

Gabi Martínez: ¿Preguntas inspiradas en tu propia experiencia?

María Ospina: Yo tengo un perro, claro, y hay preguntas que me hago constantemente. Preguntas sobre la asimetría de poder que tengo con mi amigo, con quien sostengo una profunda amistad. 

Gabi Martínez: Él se llama…

María Ospina: Coquí. Era hijo de la perra de una vecina que no sabía qué hacer con él. Es un terrier pequeño con un lado indomable que me encanta. Venía con ese nombre, Coquí, que es una rana del Caribe, el animal oficial de Puerto Rico. Caminando con él he visto que su experiencia de vivir el bosque es mucho más amplia que la mía porque huele más, porque entiende de otras maneras el mundo de la superficie y el que está debajo, porque oye diferente. Concibe el bosque desde otro lugar.

«Yo quería retornar al bosque, preguntarme por el hogar, ¿podemos reconstruirlo o no? Y preguntarme qué proyectamos sobre un animal al que pedimos que nos salve de nuestras propias crisis, de nuestra soledad, de nuestra sensación de inutilidad, de nuestras ansiedades».

Gabi Martínez: El naturalista Thomas Berry habló de la necesidad urgente de emprender una Gran Conversación entre los humanos y el resto de especies, sobre todo si queremos que la nuestra sobreviva. De todas formas, ¿hasta qué punto sirven las palabras para mantener esa Gran Conversación? 

María Ospina: ¿Cómo traducir el sonido de un ave? Ahí aparecen los límites de la traducción. Este también es un libro sobre cuáles son los límites al escribir al animal no humano, cómo meterlo en los límites de una página. Leí un artículo en The Atlantic sobre un proyecto de inteligencia artificial que intenta descifrar el lenguaje de las ballenas. Planteaba que, si eventualmente se les pudiera hablar, ¿qué les diríamos? Unos científicos opinaban que no deberíamos decirles nada. Otros, que les pidamos perdón. Pero, ¿cómo traduces la palabra perdón? 

Gabi Martínez: Llama la atención cómo abordas el pensamiento de los animales. No lo haces de forma directa sino diciendo «tal vez» pensó, «quizás» quisiera…

María Ospina: Es la gran pregunta ética: cómo hablar de otras especies y de nuestra responsabilidad de sentir curiosidad por otros seres, como dice Donna Haraway. Cómo hablar de cómo nos miran ellos a nosotros sin caer en la mirada imperialista que asegura que puedes hablar por seres que tienen ontologías y modos de concebir el mundo tan distintos a los nuestros. Quiero respetar esa diferencia, investigar lo que implicaría dar voz al animal no humano pero desde la comprensión de que el otro está ahí con una complejidad, racionalidad e inteligencia distinta y no del todo accesible. Es un testigo soberano que yo no puedo descifrar completamente. En esta novela quiero complicar la mirada antropocéntrica que simplifica al animal o lo considera inferior, pero a la vez proponer su acompañamiento. Eso solo me lo permite hacer la ficción: especular y preguntarme por las dimensiones éticas y políticas de ese acto. Me permite inventar una narradora humana que vuela con un ave por el Caribe y el Darién y en el proceso se pregunta por lo que supone esa experiencia para ambas. La novela también busca expresar la dificultad de contestar esas preguntas.

María Ospina Pizano. Crédito: Diego Lafuente.

María Ospina Pizano. Crédito: Diego Lafuente.

Gabi Martínez: ¿Y en qué punto está la conversación sobre naturaleza entre los propios humanos? A fin de cuentas, el libro lo has escrito para… nosotros. ¿Crees que los relatos, el arte, pueden cambiar alguna inercia? Tú acabas de ganar un premio, parece que hay una apuesta más decidida por visibilizar historias protagonizadas por seres no humanos. 

María Ospina: La función de la palabra es humilde, dada la fuerza del capital, pero es fundamental. Yo creo en una literatura, un cine, unas expresiones culturales que están ahí para construir una sensibilidad que trasciende la racionalidad capitalista de la utilidad, del dinero, de la explotación de todos los otros seres. Creo en la posibilidad de narrar el mundo desde un lugar lírico, desde la fuerza de la sorpresa, la especulación, la ternura, la inquietud y la pregunta. Nunca pensé que tanta gente fuera a querer leer mi libro. Pensé que los que no estaban interesados en los animales no humanos ni se acercarían, pero no ha sido el caso, y mucha gente me ha dicho: ahora miro distinto. Ha sido lindo oír que lectores y lectoras se despertaron un poco a la idea de ver otras especies, que pasaron de un mundo muy centrado en lo humano a pensar en la araña que construye su tela en el techo, y considerarla de otra forma.

Gabi Martínez: Además de por tángaras y perras, tu novela está protagonizada por una hembra de puercoespín, cucarronas… ¿por qué las elegiste?

María Ospina: Los otros animales llegaron a la página mientras escribía en el bosque altoandino. Yo había crecido con cucarrones en la infancia, (un tipo de escarabajo)… pero en medio de la escritura de este libro me topé con un diciembre muy lluvioso que trajo un nacimiento masivo de escarabajos: estaba leyendo y me caían encima de la página. Y entendí que el escarabajo me invitaba a pensar en el subsuelo, en la historia que guarda y revela la tierra. También en la vida de los insectos, que son animales más difíciles para nosotros de antropomorfizar. La hembra de puercoespín está basada en una historia real sobre un puercoespín que fue alimentado por una mujer que estaba lactando a un niño en ese bosque que frecuento. Ella me invitó a explorar cómo se complica el estatus de animal salvaje de ciertos animales y la relación de cuidado y cercanía que algunas personas construyen desde hace siglos con animales silvestres en el mundo rural.

«De diversas comunidades indígenas emerge una tradición que propone que nuestras comunidades éticas, espirituales, locales, son interespecie. No podemos entendernos sin esa imbricación».

Gabi Martínez: Los chamanes conectan de un modo más directo con los animales de su entorno. En Colombia son muy importantes. ¿Te ha influido su tradición?

María Ospina: Llevo muchos años investigando sobre las representaciones de la selva y eso me llevó a interesarme en las prácticas chamánicas. En los últimos años he aprendido mucho de un chamán peruano cuyas enseñanzas fueron vitales para terminar este libro. De diversas comunidades indígenas emerge una tradición que propone que nuestras comunidades éticas, espirituales, locales, son interespecie. No podemos entendernos sin esa imbricación. Me interesa también la forma en que algunas plantas, como la ayahuasca, hacen posible una comprensión de ese continuo entre humanos y otros seres animales y vegetales que la tradición occidental suele negar. Creo que mi interés por estos temas viene también de crecer en el campo oyendo historias de la tradición oral que hablan de esas relaciones, aunque desde el espacio andino. Son historias que aluden a unos legados antiguos en los que se privilegia la relación entre especies y se le otorga subjetividad al animal no humano… miradas que el discurso occidental cristiano quiso alguna vez prohibir. 

Gabi Martínez: ¿Por eso se ha escrito tan poca literNatura en español en las últimas décadas? 

María Ospina: No creo que sea así. Hay una enorme tradición latinoamericana de reflexión sobre la naturaleza que lleva muchos siglos. Pienso en todas las novelas sobre la selva, La vorágine y muchas otras. En los cuentos de Horacio Quiroga se cuestiona la explotación humana de bosques y animales y se explora la pregunta de la mirada animal de formas fascinantes. José María Arguedas reflexiona sobre estas relaciones y tensiones en el espacio indígena y campesino de los Andes. João Guimarães Rosa, en Brasil, tiene relatos como Mi tío el jaguareté, que es sobre un hombre que se va volviendo jaguar y su lenguaje va cambiando… Es otro ejemplo maravilloso de cómo la tradición indígena entra en la tradición literaria para cuestionar el antropocentrismo. Tenemos que considerar incluso a García Márquez, que en sus libros trabaja la inundación, la sequía y el extractivismo. Pienso también en Rosario Castellanos en México… Y estoy nombrando solo a pocos.

Gabi Martínez: Entonces, ¿por qué temías que tu historia no encontrara lectores?

María Ospina: La gran duda con esta narración era cómo producir relato cuando tengo protagonistas no humanos a quienes les doy una personalidad pero rehúso adentrarme con certeza en su psicología. Cómo hago para que esto no sea descripción decimonónica romántica del paisaje. Y qué hago para contar al animal no humano sin proyectar emociones humanas. Cómo respetar la distancia ética entre el humano y el animal que no conozco del todo. 

Gabi Martínez: En cualquier caso, estás hablando de ficciones y de autores muertos. Y es evidente que, en lengua española, casi no se ha abordado la naturaleza desde el ensayo o el periodismo literario, los géneros más característicos del nature writing. ¿Hay miedo a represalias?

María Ospina: En ficción y poesía sí se ha tratado el tema de la explotación de la naturaleza y se han celebrado y defendido las dimensiones más que humanas. Creo que en Latinoamérica la literatura se presenta como el mejor lugar para defender esto. Ha sido siempre una elección estética y desde la libertad.

María Ospina Pizano. Crédito: Diego Lafuente.

María Ospina Pizano. Crédito: Diego Lafuente.

Gabi Martínez: Este año, Colombia celebra el centenario de una de sus novelas emblema, La vorágine, en la que la naturaleza es absoluta protagonista. 

María Ospina: Es un texto que enseño mucho, porque si soy algo, soy docente. La novela tuvo el interés de narrar la historia brutal de esa frontera que es la Amazonia colombiana, y se convirtió en la novela nacional junto con Cien años de soledad. La selva es el lugar sobre el cual se proyectan todo tipo de ansiedades y deseos culturales y políticos en un país como Colombia. La selva siempre ha sido el lugar al que la cultura colombiana regresa, como en una especie de peregrinaje. Y por eso ahora La vorágine vuelve a emerger.

Gabi Martínez: Apoyada por las instituciones oficiales, que han decretado un año La vorágine subrayando su valor de denuncia contra terratenientes, empresas extractivistas... 

María Ospina: Es una paradoja feliz que en un país tan marcado por el extractivismo esta novela siga ocupando un rol tan importante. Esto coincide con que la literatura y el cine han retornado a pensar lo rural con más fuerza que en décadas anteriores. Hay muchas películas colombianas que narran las historias del extractivismo, de la explotación de la naturaleza, de la defensa del territorio en el espacio rural. Podríamos decir que son herederas de la tradición híbrida de documentar y ficcionalizar que inaugura La Vorágine. Pienso en El vuelco del cangrejo, La sirga, La tierra y la sombra, entre otras. La cultura colombiana sigue reflexionando sobre naturaleza porque el tema de la tenencia de la tierra, de la minería, de la explotación maderera, de los efectos de la agroindustria siguen siendo centrales para la sociedad.

Gabi Martínez: ¿Y sobre los animales en la ciudad? Varios de ellos son protagonistas en tu novela. Bogotá está dividida en estratos con grandes diferencias sociales. ¿Hay animales distintos según los estratos? 

María Ospina: Yo no creo que se pueda afirmar que las diferencias de clase determinan totalmente el tipo de animales con los que la gente convive. Como en muchos lugares, en Bogotá este deseo cruza todas las clases sociales, aunque el dinero pueda determinar cómo se da esta interacción. Allí hay iniciativas muy bonitas de cuidado a los animales que surgen de la calle y de barrios muy empobrecidos. Una de las cosas que quise explorar en la novela es la complejidad de las relaciones de amistad, dependencia y cuidado entre perros y humanos en diferentes espacios considerados como hogar. Por otra parte, en muchas ciudades y pueblos la gente sigue queriendo domesticar animales como loros, papagayos, tortugas, monos, que son atrapados y obligados a vivir en cautiverio en el espacio doméstico. Me parece importante que pensemos en ese desplazamiento forzado. Es un tema que para mí tiene que ver con la justicia, con las relaciones de poder que establecemos con seres no humanos, con la idea del hogar y del testigo, con la historia de la violencia.

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