Entrevistas

Agustina Bazterrica y la fe después del apocalipsis

La autora argentina Agustina Bazterrica vuelve a llevar su infancia en un colegio católico a la mesa de novedades con «Las indignas» (Alfaguara), una novela en la que una mujer narra, con nocturnidad, alevosía y aún a riesgo de perder lo que alguna vez llamó vida, cómo es su día a día en un antiguo convento después del gran apagón y el consiguiente colapso climático. Hambre, violencia, incertidumbre, miedos, castigos y mutilaciones son el día a día de las mujeres que rezan en sus celdas en silencio porque «sin fe no hay amparo».

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un mundo arrasado, sin agua potable, sin alimentos disponibles, sin ni siquiera oc\u00e9anos a los que recurrir, un mundo absolutamente saqueado por una humanidad convertida en animal carro\u00f1ero. La protagonista de <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/literatura-contemporanea\/335602-ebook-las-indignas-9788420477176\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><em>Las indignas<\/em><\/span><\/a>\u00a0(Alfaguara), la \u00faltima novela de <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/2858-agustina-bazterrica\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">Agustina Bazterrica<\/span><\/a>, llega a un antiguo monasterio huyendo precisamente de ese colapso total para darse de bruces con una distop\u00eda probablemente peor: una especie de culto religioso liderado por un hombre que nunca da la cara y que se refugia siempre en las palabras de una madre superiora terriblemente controladora que parece disfrutar ejerciendo castigos a sus subordinadas. 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La narraci\u00f3n comienza explicando c\u00f3mo unas cucarachas intentan salir de una almohada dentro de la que han sido cosidas. Ellas, que son capaces de sobrevivir a un holocausto nuclear, sin cabeza, cuyos cuerpos son flexibles\u2026 \u00bfLas mujeres que protagonizan <em>Las indignas<\/em> son tambi\u00e9n cucarachas? <\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> Exacto. Cuando les dan latigazos a algunos, y esto ocurre mucho en los pueblos que est\u00e1n oprimidos, los fustigados exigen m\u00e1s latigazos para otros. En parte por venganza, porque ellos est\u00e1n recibiendo dolor. La idea es como disfrutar del sufrimiento del otro porque vos est\u00e1s sufriendo. La protagonista traslada toda su frustraci\u00f3n y toda su falta de poder a los m\u00e1s d\u00e9biles, que son las cucarachas, pero tambi\u00e9n a las siervas, a las cuales le infringen m\u00e1s castigos. A lo largo de todo el libro hay varias im\u00e1genes con insectos que se pueden extrapolar a ellas e incluso aparece una cucaracha arrastrada por hormigas.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: Que es casi el funeral de una elegida, \u00bfno? <\/strong><\/p><p><b>Agustina Bazterrica: <\/b>Tambi\u00e9n. Y las avispas.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: \u00bfEsa escena en la que las avispas revolotean alrededor de una indigna es realismo m\u00e1gico?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> Ella habla del sonido, que era como una amenaza. El sonido de las avispas en el bosque es como tambi\u00e9n el sonido de esa comunidad, como el de una amenaza latente ah\u00ed.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: Las mujeres que habitan en la Casa de la Hermandad Sagrada forman una comunidad que en realidad est\u00e1 absolutamente estratificada e individualizada. Y en la que confiar en alguien es pr\u00e1cticamente una sentencia de muerte. <\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> S\u00ed, tener piedad es como tener una bomba que te puede explotar en cualquier momento. Le ocurre a la narradora con Elena, a quien traiciona. Esto est\u00e1 basado en parte en mi experiencia en un colegio cat\u00f3lico y suced\u00eda exactamente eso, no a esos niveles, pero s\u00ed que hab\u00eda una inclinaci\u00f3n por juzgar a las otras todo el tiempo y generaba un autocontrol entre las mismas alumnas que era muy tremendo. Era un mecanismo perfecto, no s\u00e9 si creado por las monjas, pero como de pan\u00f3ptico. No ten\u00edas mucha escapatoria, porque en cuanto vos quer\u00edas hacer algo que estaba fuera de la norma, ya tus compa\u00f1eras te tildaban de zorra, de puta. 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En ausencia de una fe real, \u00bfc\u00f3mo se justifica que decidan permanecer voluntariamente en esa suerte de <\/strong><em><b>c\u00e1rcel<\/b><strong>?<\/strong><\/em><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> Es complejo, porque si ellas se van de ah\u00ed, est\u00e1n convencidas de que se mueren de sed y de hambre. Entonces, tienen que quedarse y para ello se deben adaptar. <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/recomendaciones\/tendencias\/libros-sobre-sectas\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Son cooptadas por una especie de secta<\/a><\/span>, que adem\u00e1s tiene muchos mecanismos de manipulaci\u00f3n. Estudi\u00e9 mucho sobre todo eso antes de escribir. Para empezar, les cambian la identidad (es decir, el nombre), las visten a todas iguales y tambi\u00e9n est\u00e1 el tema de la sensaci\u00f3n de tribu. De ser aceptadas por la tribu, que es m\u00e1s fuerte de lo que nosotros creemos, porque la necesitamos como instinto para sobrevivir. Un humano luchando solo contra, no s\u00e9, un le\u00f3n, es una cosa, pero cuando est\u00e1s en comunidad, bueno, ten\u00e9s m\u00e1s <em>chance<\/em> de sobrevivir. Por no hablar de todo el tema de las torturas y el miedo, que es fundamental para generar situaciones de vulnerabilidad y que te bajen las defensas y no te puedas rebelar tan f\u00e1cilmente, o los mantras, aquel de \u00absin fe no hay amparo\u00bb, que parece hasta una amenaza.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"iurtfa7\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abNo ten\u00edas mucha escapatoria [en el colegio cat\u00f3lico donde estudi\u00f3 la autora], porque en cuanto vos quer\u00edas hacer algo que estaba fuera de la norma, ya tus compa\u00f1eras te tildaban de zorra, de puta. 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No, no, no. Digamos que cada libro es una b\u00fasqueda diferente, no significa que siempre vaya a escribir distop\u00edas. Pero cuando me meto en el tema, empiezo a leer y a estudiar. Te pongo un ejemplo concreto, la torre del silencio, que surgi\u00f3 despu\u00e9s de empaparme sobre los tipos de enterramientos que hay en distintas culturas. La santa menor hab\u00eda muerto, y pens\u00e9 que la ten\u00edan que enterrar de manera \u00e9pica. Entonces, me empec\u00e9 a imaginar, pero en estos casos corres el riesgo de caer en lugares comunes, no s\u00e9, dec\u00eds, esto es <em>reoriginal<\/em> (y no, no existe la originalidad), pero despu\u00e9s te das cuenta de que no, que es una pavada. Para m\u00ed, todo eso implica mucha lectura, mucha investigaci\u00f3n. En la India existe un culto que tiene una torre gigante donde no entierran a sus muertos, los dejan a distintos niveles de altura y se van pudriendo ah\u00ed. Y dije, <em>chau,<\/em> o sea, esto. Los grillos que comen, por ejemplo, son fruto de buscar alternativas a la prote\u00edna. M\u00e9xico est\u00e1 siendo uno de los principales productores de insectos comestibles, y me inform\u00e9 sobre granjas de grillos justo despu\u00e9s de descartar las langostas y los gusanos, porque me resultaba m\u00e1s complicado encontrar la verosimilitud. 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\u00bfNo es terrible la manera en que todas las mujeres que viven en el monasterio naturalizan la crueldad hasta el punto de ponerse creativas imaginando castigos (que posteriormente adjetivar\u00e1n como elegantes) para sus compa\u00f1eras?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/ficciones\/las-inseparables-simone-de-beauvoir\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Simone de Beauvoir<\/a><\/span> dec\u00eda que los opresores tienen tanto poder porque hay c\u00f3mplices dentro de los oprimidos. 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Todo el tiempo est\u00e1 esa cuesti\u00f3n de juzgar a las otras y al final te vas impregnando de eso y lo vas naturalizando, porque te parece que est\u00e1 bien hacerlo. Nadie dice: \u00ab\u00bfSabes qu\u00e9? Est\u00e1 bueno que se critiquen entre ustedes. Si vos critic\u00e1s a la otra, en realidad est\u00e1s hablando de vos\u00bb. Cuando sal\u00ed del colegio y empec\u00e9 a entender que eso no estaba bien y que no ocurr\u00eda en todos los patios de recreo, que hab\u00eda algunos en los que la gente era amigable, realmente se quer\u00eda y entend\u00eda el compa\u00f1erismo. Lo vi horroroso. Yo sufr\u00ed todos los d\u00edas que estuve ah\u00ed, no quer\u00eda ir nunca. Y no me pas\u00f3 solamente a m\u00ed. O sea, hubo gente que se adapt\u00f3 mejor y no la pas\u00f3 tan mal, muchas de las que vivimos en esa \u00e9poca que no la pasamos bien.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"f442lhn\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abSimone de Beauvoir dec\u00eda que los opresores tienen tanto poder porque hay c\u00f3mplices dentro de los oprimidos. En situaciones de mucha violencia, los que reciben los latigazos, los exigen tambi\u00e9n para quienes a\u00fan no han pasado por ellos\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"y2r5nbd\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>LENGUA: De ah\u00ed que tienes la sensaci\u00f3n de que las religiones oprimen, no ayudan. <\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> A ver, como todo, cada experiencia individual es \u00fanica y va a haber gente a la que sin duda la religi\u00f3n la salv\u00f3 de un mont\u00f3n de cosas. Porque a veces lo que da es una sensaci\u00f3n de tradici\u00f3n, comunidad\u2026 Est\u00e1 muy bien y hay muchas monjas y sacerdotes que ayudan. Pero lo que yo opino del catolicismo, que es la que conozco m\u00e1s porque me crie en ella, porque la estudi\u00e9, es que no me parece bien que un Dios que en teor\u00eda te ense\u00f1a a amar al pr\u00f3jimo como a vos mismo te est\u00e9 diciendo a la vez que ten\u00e9s que matar y torturar gente en la Inquisici\u00f3n en su nombre. O que est\u00e1 bien que seas ped\u00f3filo, porque en lugar ir a la c\u00e1rcel te cambian de sede. O que tengas voto de pobreza, pero seas el que dirige tu pa\u00eds, el Vaticano y lideres la inmobiliaria m\u00e1s grande del mundo. Si te pones a pensar... A pesar de todo, creo en que hay una energ\u00eda divina que tiene que ver con el amor, no con las religiones. Y creo que el libro tambi\u00e9n habla de esa energ\u00eda del amor.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: Que puede estar en las avispas o en la\u2026 <\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> S\u00ed, puede estar en el bosque, puede estar en el v\u00ednculo con las otras o en el v\u00ednculo con los animales, por eso est\u00e1 Circe. En esa empat\u00eda con los otros, para m\u00ed es donde est\u00e1 el v\u00ednculo con la divinidad. Por eso la vida de las personas, y para muchos tambi\u00e9n la de los animales y la de la naturaleza, es sagrada, porque creen que somos desprendimientos de esa energ\u00eda sagrada.<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: Tambi\u00e9n en el v\u00ednculo con los otros. \u00bfAcaso los \u00fanicos momentos felices que tiene la protagonista no son en compa\u00f1\u00eda y con la complicidad de otra persona? <\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> S\u00ed, a diferencia de en <em>Cad\u00e1ver exquisito<\/em>, aqu\u00ed quer\u00eda que hubiese algunos resquicios de luz y esperanza. De hecho, uno de los s\u00edmbolos de la novela es que ella empieza a abrir una grieta en la pared de su cuarto, que no tiene ventanas. Y la grieta se abre en un momento espec\u00edfico, cuando al fin puede entrar luz. A lo largo de toda la obra se vuelve sobre la luz y la oscuridad: la luz de la vela donde ella escribe, la luz de los vitrales, que es ef\u00edmera, la del bosque, que se refleja en Luc\u00eda cuando est\u00e1 ah\u00ed 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Cr\u00e9dito: Alejandra L\u00f3pez.\",\"link_to\":\"none\",\"link\":{\"is_external\":\"\",\"url\":\"\"},\"view\":\"traditional\",\"section_style_image\":\"\",\"space\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"opacity\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":1},\"hover_animation\":\"\",\"image_border_border\":\"\",\"image_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"image_border_color\":\"\",\"image_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"image_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"image_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"image\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"xj0hcsi\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p style=\\\"text-align: right;\\\">Agustina Bazterrica. Cr\u00e9dito: Alejandra L\u00f3pez.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"\",\"typography_typography\":\"\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"2\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"10\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}}],\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"iv71duf\",\"elType\":\"section\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_layout\":\"\",\"stretch_section\":\"\",\"layout\":\"boxed\",\"content_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"gap\":\"default\",\"height\":\"default\",\"custom_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":400},\"column_position\":\"middle\",\"content_position\":\"\",\"structure\":\"10\",\"section_background\":\"\",\"background_background\":\"\",\"background_color\":\"\",\"background_color_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":0},\"background_color_b\":\"\",\"background_color_b_stop\":{\"unit\":\"%\",\"size\":100},\"background_gradient_type\":\"linear\",\"background_gradient_angle\":{\"unit\":\"deg\",\"size\":180},\"background_gradient_position\":\"center 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Decidiste hacernos part\u00edcipes de esta distop\u00eda a modo de diario. Con una narradora que es indigna y que corre enormes riesgos para encontrar (o fabricar) tinta, papel y un escondite que le ayude a mantener esta suerte de testamento ap\u00f3crifo. <\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> La b\u00fasqueda de tintas en diferentes ingredientes es para generar esta sensaci\u00f3n de que ella va a escribir sea como sea. Y si no la consigue, escribir\u00e1 con la sangre. Es un claro amor a la literatura y a la palabra como salvaci\u00f3n, aceptando incluso desangrarse para terminar de la \u00faltima palabra, que es lo m\u00e1s importante. De hecho, antes de comenzar a escribir le\u00ed <em>Antes que anochezca<\/em>, del cubano Reinaldo Arenas, que fue perseguido y encarcelado y ten\u00eda que esconder sus novelas. Se las daba a los amigos para que no se las agarrasen. Reescribi\u00f3 novelas enteras que perdi\u00f3. Y lo que predomina en toda su historia, que es tremenda, es la escritura como salvaci\u00f3n. O sea, \u00e9l necesitaba seguir escribiendo, costara lo que costara.\u00a0<\/p><p><b>LENGUA: El diario es tambi\u00e9n uno de los pocos detalles en la novela que hacen pasar a una mujer de objeto a sujeto en un entorno asfixiante, dominado por un hombre sin rostro al que todas temen. \u00bfPor qu\u00e9 has elegido que todos los personajes femeninos est\u00e1n subyugados? <\/b><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> De nuevo sale a relucir mi experiencia en el colegio cat\u00f3lico. No s\u00e9 si hubiese podido escribir esta novela sin haber ido a ese colegio, la verdad. Me parece que hay algo at\u00e1vico, de la experiencia vital, que por m\u00e1s que leas libros sobre monjas y conventos no comprend\u00e9s si no lo viviste. Esta cosa como entre misteriosa y m\u00e1gica de la religi\u00f3n. Esta cosa medio de estar cooptada por ese universo, porque yo hasta en un momento quer\u00eda ser monja, pero me dijeron que no. Me fascinaba la cuesti\u00f3n m\u00e1gica de pensar que pod\u00edas hablar con Dios, que te visitaba la virgen Mar\u00eda y toda la iconograf\u00eda.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#1a1a1a\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"18\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Fort-Book\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"27\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"0\",\"bottom\":\"0\",\"left\":\"0\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"fviu5a6\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p>\u00abHay quienes viven distop\u00edas en este momento. La gente que vive en la basura est\u00e1 en una distop\u00eda. Y te puedo dar un mill\u00f3n de ejemplos: mujeres que caminan kil\u00f3metros en busca de agua, mujeres que siguen siendo mutiladas, (...) ni\u00f1as que se casan con se\u00f1ores de 40 a\u00f1os...\u00bb.<\/p>\",\"section_style\":\"\",\"align\":\"\",\"align_tablet\":\"\",\"align_mobile\":\"\",\"text_color\":\"#000000\",\"typography_typography\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_size\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"40\"},\"typography_font_size_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_font_size_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"24\"},\"typography_font_family\":\"custom\",\"typography_font_family_custom\":\"Vollkorn\",\"typography_font_weight\":\"\",\"typography_text_transform\":\"\",\"typography_font_style\":\"\",\"typography_line_height\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"45\"},\"typography_line_height_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"em\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_line_height_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"30\"},\"typography_letter_spacing\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"typography_letter_spacing_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"size\":\"\"},\"_section_style\":\"\",\"_margin\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"95\",\"bottom\":\"58\",\"left\":\"95\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"0\",\"right\":\"30\",\"bottom\":\"50\",\"left\":\"30\",\"isLinked\":false},\"_margin_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_tablet\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_padding_mobile\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_animation\":\"\",\"animation_duration\":\"\",\"_css_classes\":\"\",\"_section_background\":\"\",\"_background_background\":\"\",\"_background_color\":\"\",\"_background_image\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_background_position\":\"\",\"_background_attachment\":\"\",\"_background_repeat\":\"\",\"_background_size\":\"\",\"_background_video_link\":\"\",\"_background_video_fallback\":{\"url\":\"\",\"id\":\"\"},\"_border_border\":\"\",\"_border_width\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_border_color\":\"\",\"_border_radius\":{\"unit\":\"px\",\"top\":\"\",\"right\":\"\",\"bottom\":\"\",\"left\":\"\",\"isLinked\":true},\"_box_shadow_box_shadow_type\":\"\",\"_box_shadow_box_shadow\":{\"horizontal\":0,\"vertical\":0,\"blur\":10,\"spread\":0,\"inset\":\"\",\"color\":\"rgba(0,0,0,0.5)\"},\"_section_responsive\":\"\",\"responsive_description\":\"\",\"hide_desktop\":\"\",\"hide_tablet\":\"\",\"hide_mobile\":\"\"},\"defaultEditSettings\":[],\"widgetType\":\"text-editor\",\"editSettings\":{}},{\"id\":\"07r7wwe\",\"elType\":\"widget\",\"isInner\":false,\"settings\":{\"section_editor\":\"\",\"editor\":\"<p><strong>LENGUA: Formas parte de toda una nueva ola de autoras que est\u00e1n trabajando el terror desde un punto de vista literario. \u00bfPor qu\u00e9 crees que esto est\u00e1 ocurriendo, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/escritoras-latinoamericanas\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">especialmente en Latinoam\u00e9rica<\/a><\/span>?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> Es verdad, hay un mont\u00f3n. En Espa\u00f1a est\u00e1 Layla Mart\u00ednez, con<em> Carcoma<\/em>, que me encant\u00f3, o <em>Quema<\/em>, de Ariadna Castellarnau, que son cuentos que se pueden leer como una novela. Puedo nombrar a muchas m\u00e1s, como <a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/964180-monica-ojeda\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\">M\u00f3nica Ojeda<\/span>,<\/a> <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/7933-maria-fernanda-ampuero\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Mar\u00eda Fernanda Ampuero<\/a><\/span>, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/fernanda-melchor-y-su-viaje-al-paradais-escribir-de-lo-que-a-una-le-interesa-es-suficientemente-feminista\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Fernanda Melchor<\/a><\/span>, Ximena Santaolalla, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/pilar-quintana-los-abismos-alfaguara\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Pilar Quintana<\/a><\/span>, Giovanna Rivero, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/co\/revista-lengua\/podcast\/revista-lengua-podcast-el-fanfiction-mariana-enriquez\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Mariana Enriquez<\/a><\/span>, <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/ficciones\/cabezas-contra-el-asfalto-de-samanta-schweblin\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Samanta Schweblin<\/a><\/span>\u2026 Los suyos no son libros que se queden en generar terror de manera artificial o efectista, sino que tienen muchas capas de lectura y de an\u00e1lisis. Pienso en un cuento de <em>Las voladoras<\/em>, de M\u00f3nica Ojeda, que se puede leer como terror, pero tambi\u00e9n est\u00e1 trabajando un tema de la paternidad que es muy profundo. Lo puedes leer y releer y le vas a seguir encontrando cosas. Y, la verdad, tambi\u00e9n tiene que ver con que vivimos en pa\u00edses desbordados, desbordados de violencia, desbordados de realidades muy dif\u00edciles, con todo lo positivo que tienen. Porque yo siempre digo que Argentina es uno de los pa\u00edses que m\u00e1s admiro, porque est\u00e1 llen\u00edsimo de <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/borges-y-bioy-casares-alias\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">gente que ama la literatura<\/a><\/span>, que hace todo para invitar a escritores a su pueblo peque\u00f1o, incluso donar su sueldo. Buenos Aires es una de las ciudades con m\u00e1s librer\u00edas del mundo, si no la primera, la segunda, y los argentinos en general son muy solidarios, aunque es un pa\u00eds donde hubo una dictadura militar, donde <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/ricardo-gil-lavedra-juicio-a-las-juntas-argentina-1985\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">desaparecieron personas, hubo torturas<\/a><\/span> y mucha gente estuvo de acuerdo con eso. Ahora, tenemos violencia econ\u00f3mica todo el tiempo, feminicidios cada 48 horas. Hay otros pa\u00edses, como M\u00e9xico y Brasil, donde es m\u00e1s fuerte a\u00fan.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA: La realidad es m\u00e1s terror\u00edfica que la ficci\u00f3n.<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> S\u00ed, porque hay quienes viven distop\u00edas en este momento. La gente que vive en la basura est\u00e1 en una distop\u00eda. Y te puedo dar un mill\u00f3n de ejemplos: mujeres que caminan kil\u00f3metros en busca de agua, mujeres que siguen siendo mutiladas, apedreadas, acusadas de brujas, ni\u00f1as que se casan con se\u00f1ores de 40 a\u00f1os\u2026<\/p><p><strong>LENGUA:\u00a0\u00bfVes en alguna parte esa luminosidad que encuentra nuestra protagonista rascando en la pared de su celda?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Agustina Bazterrica:<\/strong> Est\u00e1 en todas partes. A pesar de los horrores, el mundo est\u00e1 lleno de gente que ayuda a otras 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class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><strong>OTROS\u00a0CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/entrevistas\/isabel-allende-por-lydia-cacho\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Isabel Allende por Lydia Cacho: la mujer que grit\u00f3 su nombre al viento<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/escritoras-latinoamericanas\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Escritoras latinoamericanas: una detallada biograf\u00eda de un fen\u00f3meno mundial<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/no-ficcion\/ricardo-gil-lavedra-juicio-a-las-juntas-argentina-1985\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Oslo, 1988: el ep\u00edlogo inesperado del juicio en Argentina de 1985<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/claudia-pineiro-el-tiempo-de-las-moscas-cynthia-edul\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Claudia Pi\u00f1eiro: muertes, mujeres y moscas<\/a><\/span><\/p><p><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/sylvia-plath-por-mariana-enriquez-mary-ventura-y-el-noveno-reino\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Sylvia Plath por Mariana Enriquez: la mujer que lo ha sido todo para 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15 minutos
Agustina Bazterrica. Crédito: Alejandra López.

Agustina Bazterrica. Crédito: Alejandra López.

Imagine un mundo arrasado, sin agua potable, sin alimentos disponibles, sin ni siquiera océanos a los que recurrir, un mundo absolutamente saqueado por una humanidad convertida en animal carroñero. La protagonista de Las indignas (Alfaguara), la última novela de Agustina Bazterrica, llega a un antiguo monasterio huyendo precisamente de ese colapso total para darse de bruces con una distopía probablemente peor: una especie de culto religioso liderado por un hombre que nunca da la cara y que se refugia siempre en las palabras de una madre superiora terriblemente controladora que parece disfrutar ejerciendo castigos a sus subordinadas. La absoluta estratificación de esa comunidad no libra a nadie de esos correctivos, de la hambruna, del frío, de la suciedad, del miedo a la lluvia radiactiva y del temor a (y la ambición de) subir de escalafón. Las siervas quieren ser indignas y las indignas trabajan por ser elegidas, santas menores, auras plenas y diáfanas de espíritu que han sido convenientemente mutiladas. «Sin fe no hay amparo», es el lema de todas ellas. La autora argentina, maestra de las distopías futuristas, esboza con brillantez los límites entre la fe y la supervivencia después del gran apagón a través de las páginas de un diario secreto en el que, por momentos, se normalizan la violencia, la agresividad, los silencios y muchos sacrificios. Pero donde también se vislumbra la luz al final de la celda.

LENGUA: La narración comienza explicando cómo unas cucarachas intentan salir de una almohada dentro de la que han sido cosidas. Ellas, que son capaces de sobrevivir a un holocausto nuclear, sin cabeza, cuyos cuerpos son flexibles… ¿Las mujeres que protagonizan Las indignas son también cucarachas?

Agustina Bazterrica: Exacto. Cuando les dan latigazos a algunos, y esto ocurre mucho en los pueblos que están oprimidos, los fustigados exigen más latigazos para otros. En parte por venganza, porque ellos están recibiendo dolor. La idea es como disfrutar del sufrimiento del otro porque vos estás sufriendo. La protagonista traslada toda su frustración y toda su falta de poder a los más débiles, que son las cucarachas, pero también a las siervas, a las cuales le infringen más castigos. A lo largo de todo el libro hay varias imágenes con insectos que se pueden extrapolar a ellas e incluso aparece una cucaracha arrastrada por hormigas.

LENGUA: Que es casi el funeral de una elegida, ¿no?

Agustina Bazterrica: También. Y las avispas.

LENGUA: ¿Esa escena en la que las avispas revolotean alrededor de una indigna es realismo mágico?

Agustina Bazterrica: Ella habla del sonido, que era como una amenaza. El sonido de las avispas en el bosque es como también el sonido de esa comunidad, como el de una amenaza latente ahí.

LENGUA: Las mujeres que habitan en la Casa de la Hermandad Sagrada forman una comunidad que en realidad está absolutamente estratificada e individualizada. Y en la que confiar en alguien es prácticamente una sentencia de muerte.

Agustina Bazterrica: Sí, tener piedad es como tener una bomba que te puede explotar en cualquier momento. Le ocurre a la narradora con Elena, a quien traiciona. Esto está basado en parte en mi experiencia en un colegio católico y sucedía exactamente eso, no a esos niveles, pero sí que había una inclinación por juzgar a las otras todo el tiempo y generaba un autocontrol entre las mismas alumnas que era muy tremendo. Era un mecanismo perfecto, no sé si creado por las monjas, pero como de panóptico. No tenías mucha escapatoria, porque en cuanto vos querías hacer algo que estaba fuera de la norma, ya tus compañeras te tildaban de zorra, de puta. Y, bueno, acababas reprimiéndote.

LENGUA: Esa experiencia en el colegio de monjas, ¿atraviesa toda tu escritura?

Agustina Bazterrica: Sí, como todas las experiencias negativas, puedes ir lacerándote o aprender de ellas y soltar. En mi caso, en un sentido sí que solté. Y en otro sentido derivó en obsesiones. Son obsesiones que van a continuar, porque indagan en cuestiones del tipo: ¿Por qué existe eso? ¿Por qué existen las religiones? ¿Quién es Dios? ¿Por qué somos capaces de matar a alguien por un Dios? Todos esos temas están a lo largo de mi obra, y tomo como ejemplo Cadáver exquisito [publicada originalmente en 2017], donde reflexiono sobre por qué alguien puede creer que comer humanos está bien.

LENGUA: En ambas novelas, ¿es el colapso climático el responsable de que llegues a estos mundos tan distópicos?

Agustina Bazterrica: En realidad, sucede al revés. A veces un cuento o una novela surgen con imagen nada más, o con una palabra, o con una sensación. En este caso todo se inició a partir de una escena que está ubicada al principio del texto. Ellas están en la capilla de la ascensión y aparecen las santas menores, a quienes les empieza a correr la sangre. Al principio solo tenía eso, y ni siquiera sabía que la protagonista iba a estar escribiendo clandestinamente. Fue después cuando tuve que empezar a trabajar con la verosimilitud, para dar respuestas a los interrogantes: por qué están ahí, por qué no pueden salir, por qué nadie se rebela, por qué escribe un diario… Contestando eso fue como llegué al mundo arrasado. Todo está basado en nuestra realidad, en las cosas que ya están sucediendo, solo que llevadas a un extremo. 

LENGUA: Sorprende que en un entorno en el que la represión y la violencia llegan hasta los escalafones sociales más altos (ser elegida consiste, entre otras cosas, en pasar por una mutilación), sigan teniendo la ambición de escalar socialmente. ¿Es el deseo de la muerte?

Agustina Bazterrica: Es la ilusión de los privilegios. Las iluminadas en teoría comen mejor. En teoría están mejor. En teoría hablan con Dios de manera directa.

Agustina Bazterrica. Crédito: Alejandra López.

Agustina Bazterrica. Crédito: Alejandra López.

LENGUA: En ausencia de una fe real, ¿cómo se justifica que decidan permanecer voluntariamente en esa suerte de cárcel?

Agustina Bazterrica: Es complejo, porque si ellas se van de ahí, están convencidas de que se mueren de sed y de hambre. Entonces, tienen que quedarse y para ello se deben adaptar. Son cooptadas por una especie de secta, que además tiene muchos mecanismos de manipulación. Estudié mucho sobre todo eso antes de escribir. Para empezar, les cambian la identidad (es decir, el nombre), las visten a todas iguales y también está el tema de la sensación de tribu. De ser aceptadas por la tribu, que es más fuerte de lo que nosotros creemos, porque la necesitamos como instinto para sobrevivir. Un humano luchando solo contra, no sé, un león, es una cosa, pero cuando estás en comunidad, bueno, tenés más chance de sobrevivir. Por no hablar de todo el tema de las torturas y el miedo, que es fundamental para generar situaciones de vulnerabilidad y que te bajen las defensas y no te puedas rebelar tan fácilmente, o los mantras, aquel de «sin fe no hay amparo», que parece hasta una amenaza.

«No tenías mucha escapatoria [en el colegio católico donde estudió la autora], porque en cuanto vos querías hacer algo que estaba fuera de la norma, ya tus compañeras te tildaban de zorra, de puta. Y, bueno, acababas reprimiéndote».

LENGUA: ¿Te obsesionan las distopías?

Agustina Bazterrica: No, para nada. No, no, no. Digamos que cada libro es una búsqueda diferente, no significa que siempre vaya a escribir distopías. Pero cuando me meto en el tema, empiezo a leer y a estudiar. Te pongo un ejemplo concreto, la torre del silencio, que surgió después de empaparme sobre los tipos de enterramientos que hay en distintas culturas. La santa menor había muerto, y pensé que la tenían que enterrar de manera épica. Entonces, me empecé a imaginar, pero en estos casos corres el riesgo de caer en lugares comunes, no sé, decís, esto es reoriginal (y no, no existe la originalidad), pero después te das cuenta de que no, que es una pavada. Para mí, todo eso implica mucha lectura, mucha investigación. En la India existe un culto que tiene una torre gigante donde no entierran a sus muertos, los dejan a distintos niveles de altura y se van pudriendo ahí. Y dije, chau, o sea, esto. Los grillos que comen, por ejemplo, son fruto de buscar alternativas a la proteína. México está siendo uno de los principales productores de insectos comestibles, y me informé sobre granjas de grillos justo después de descartar las langostas y los gusanos, porque me resultaba más complicado encontrar la verosimilitud. Es importante esto, porque siempre vas a tener un lector, que eso me parece fascinante y por eso yo soy tan obsesiva y detallista, que te va a cuestionar cualquier decisión.

Agustina Bazterrica. Crédito: Alejandra López.

Agustina Bazterrica. Crédito: Alejandra López.

LENGUA: ¿No es terrible la manera en que todas las mujeres que viven en el monasterio naturalizan la crueldad hasta el punto de ponerse creativas imaginando castigos (que posteriormente adjetivarán como elegantes) para sus compañeras?

Agustina Bazterrica: Simone de Beauvoir decía que los opresores tienen tanto poder porque hay cómplices dentro de los oprimidos. En situaciones de mucha violencia, los que reciben los latigazos, los exigen también para quienes aún no han pasado por ellos. Un poco por venganza y otro poco para generar poder sobre otros. La crueldad está ahí, de nuevo la recupero de mi experiencia en la escuela católica. Yo iba por la mañana al colegio, después regresaba a almorzar a casa porque vivía cerca y en la tarde volvía a clase de inglés. En ese período en el que faltaba, el resto de las compañeras se quedaban en el patio. Cada vez que llegaba estaban criticando a alguna que no estaba. Un día, se me ocurrió preguntar si cuando yo faltaba también me criticaban. Que cómo se me ocurría eso, dijeron. Ahí tenés un ejemplo. Yo siempre he dicho que el deporte en el colegio era la crítica. Todo el tiempo está esa cuestión de juzgar a las otras y al final te vas impregnando de eso y lo vas naturalizando, porque te parece que está bien hacerlo. Nadie dice: «¿Sabes qué? Está bueno que se critiquen entre ustedes. Si vos criticás a la otra, en realidad estás hablando de vos». Cuando salí del colegio y empecé a entender que eso no estaba bien y que no ocurría en todos los patios de recreo, que había algunos en los que la gente era amigable, realmente se quería y entendía el compañerismo. Lo vi horroroso. Yo sufrí todos los días que estuve ahí, no quería ir nunca. Y no me pasó solamente a mí. O sea, hubo gente que se adaptó mejor y no la pasó tan mal, muchas de las que vivimos en esa época que no la pasamos bien.

«Simone de Beauvoir decía que los opresores tienen tanto poder porque hay cómplices dentro de los oprimidos. En situaciones de mucha violencia, los que reciben los latigazos, los exigen también para quienes aún no han pasado por ellos».

LENGUA: De ahí que tienes la sensación de que las religiones oprimen, no ayudan.

Agustina Bazterrica: A ver, como todo, cada experiencia individual es única y va a haber gente a la que sin duda la religión la salvó de un montón de cosas. Porque a veces lo que da es una sensación de tradición, comunidad… Está muy bien y hay muchas monjas y sacerdotes que ayudan. Pero lo que yo opino del catolicismo, que es la que conozco más porque me crie en ella, porque la estudié, es que no me parece bien que un Dios que en teoría te enseña a amar al prójimo como a vos mismo te esté diciendo a la vez que tenés que matar y torturar gente en la Inquisición en su nombre. O que está bien que seas pedófilo, porque en lugar ir a la cárcel te cambian de sede. O que tengas voto de pobreza, pero seas el que dirige tu país, el Vaticano y lideres la inmobiliaria más grande del mundo. Si te pones a pensar... A pesar de todo, creo en que hay una energía divina que tiene que ver con el amor, no con las religiones. Y creo que el libro también habla de esa energía del amor.

LENGUA: Que puede estar en las avispas o en la…

Agustina Bazterrica: Sí, puede estar en el bosque, puede estar en el vínculo con las otras o en el vínculo con los animales, por eso está Circe. En esa empatía con los otros, para mí es donde está el vínculo con la divinidad. Por eso la vida de las personas, y para muchos también la de los animales y la de la naturaleza, es sagrada, porque creen que somos desprendimientos de esa energía sagrada.

LENGUA: También en el vínculo con los otros. ¿Acaso los únicos momentos felices que tiene la protagonista no son en compañía y con la complicidad de otra persona?

Agustina Bazterrica: Sí, a diferencia de en Cadáver exquisito, aquí quería que hubiese algunos resquicios de luz y esperanza. De hecho, uno de los símbolos de la novela es que ella empieza a abrir una grieta en la pared de su cuarto, que no tiene ventanas. Y la grieta se abre en un momento específico, cuando al fin puede entrar luz. A lo largo de toda la obra se vuelve sobre la luz y la oscuridad: la luz de la vela donde ella escribe, la luz de los vitrales, que es efímera, la del bosque, que se refleja en Lucía cuando está ahí tirada.

Agustina Bazterrica. Crédito: Alejandra López.

Agustina Bazterrica. Crédito: Alejandra López.

LENGUA: Decidiste hacernos partícipes de esta distopía a modo de diario. Con una narradora que es indigna y que corre enormes riesgos para encontrar (o fabricar) tinta, papel y un escondite que le ayude a mantener esta suerte de testamento apócrifo.

Agustina Bazterrica: La búsqueda de tintas en diferentes ingredientes es para generar esta sensación de que ella va a escribir sea como sea. Y si no la consigue, escribirá con la sangre. Es un claro amor a la literatura y a la palabra como salvación, aceptando incluso desangrarse para terminar de la última palabra, que es lo más importante. De hecho, antes de comenzar a escribir leí Antes que anochezca, del cubano Reinaldo Arenas, que fue perseguido y encarcelado y tenía que esconder sus novelas. Se las daba a los amigos para que no se las agarrasen. Reescribió novelas enteras que perdió. Y lo que predomina en toda su historia, que es tremenda, es la escritura como salvación. O sea, él necesitaba seguir escribiendo, costara lo que costara. 

LENGUA: El diario es también uno de los pocos detalles en la novela que hacen pasar a una mujer de objeto a sujeto en un entorno asfixiante, dominado por un hombre sin rostro al que todas temen. ¿Por qué has elegido que todos los personajes femeninos están subyugados?

Agustina Bazterrica: De nuevo sale a relucir mi experiencia en el colegio católico. No sé si hubiese podido escribir esta novela sin haber ido a ese colegio, la verdad. Me parece que hay algo atávico, de la experiencia vital, que por más que leas libros sobre monjas y conventos no comprendés si no lo viviste. Esta cosa como entre misteriosa y mágica de la religión. Esta cosa medio de estar cooptada por ese universo, porque yo hasta en un momento quería ser monja, pero me dijeron que no. Me fascinaba la cuestión mágica de pensar que podías hablar con Dios, que te visitaba la virgen María y toda la iconografía.

«Hay quienes viven distopías en este momento. La gente que vive en la basura está en una distopía. Y te puedo dar un millón de ejemplos: mujeres que caminan kilómetros en busca de agua, mujeres que siguen siendo mutiladas, (...) niñas que se casan con señores de 40 años...».

LENGUA: Formas parte de toda una nueva ola de autoras que están trabajando el terror desde un punto de vista literario. ¿Por qué crees que esto está ocurriendo, especialmente en Latinoamérica?

Agustina Bazterrica: Es verdad, hay un montón. En España está Layla Martínez, con Carcoma, que me encantó, o Quema, de Ariadna Castellarnau, que son cuentos que se pueden leer como una novela. Puedo nombrar a muchas más, como Mónica Ojeda, María Fernanda Ampuero, Fernanda Melchor, Ximena Santaolalla, Pilar Quintana, Giovanna Rivero, Mariana Enriquez, Samanta Schweblin… Los suyos no son libros que se queden en generar terror de manera artificial o efectista, sino que tienen muchas capas de lectura y de análisis. Pienso en un cuento de Las voladoras, de Mónica Ojeda, que se puede leer como terror, pero también está trabajando un tema de la paternidad que es muy profundo. Lo puedes leer y releer y le vas a seguir encontrando cosas. Y, la verdad, también tiene que ver con que vivimos en países desbordados, desbordados de violencia, desbordados de realidades muy difíciles, con todo lo positivo que tienen. Porque yo siempre digo que Argentina es uno de los países que más admiro, porque está llenísimo de gente que ama la literatura, que hace todo para invitar a escritores a su pueblo pequeño, incluso donar su sueldo. Buenos Aires es una de las ciudades con más librerías del mundo, si no la primera, la segunda, y los argentinos en general son muy solidarios, aunque es un país donde hubo una dictadura militar, donde desaparecieron personas, hubo torturas y mucha gente estuvo de acuerdo con eso. Ahora, tenemos violencia económica todo el tiempo, feminicidios cada 48 horas. Hay otros países, como México y Brasil, donde es más fuerte aún. 

LENGUA: La realidad es más terrorífica que la ficción.

Agustina Bazterrica: Sí, porque hay quienes viven distopías en este momento. La gente que vive en la basura está en una distopía. Y te puedo dar un millón de ejemplos: mujeres que caminan kilómetros en busca de agua, mujeres que siguen siendo mutiladas, apedreadas, acusadas de brujas, niñas que se casan con señores de 40 años…

LENGUA: ¿Ves en alguna parte esa luminosidad que encuentra nuestra protagonista rascando en la pared de su celda?

Agustina Bazterrica: Está en todas partes. A pesar de los horrores, el mundo está lleno de gente que ayuda a otras personas.

Otras autoras argentinas

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