Entrevistas

Gloria Peirano: una escritura de la intimidad

El Mapa de las Lenguas no tiene fronteras ni capitales. Es, en consecuencia, un territorio común para la literatura en un idioma compartido, el español. Invitados por LENGUA, los autores de la edición de 2023 conversan con quienes mejor conocen su obra, sus editores, para exponer su geografía narrativa y explicar cómo sus libros encajan en esta colección panhispánica global. En las siguientes líneas, Gloria Peirano, autora de «Miramar» (Alfaguara), responde a las preguntas de Julieta Obedman, directora literaria de Penguin Random House Grupo Editorial en Argentina.

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veces los escritores llegan a publicar sus libros de la manera m\u00e1s inveros\u00edmil. En el caso de <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/2938-gloria-peirano\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Gloria Peirano<\/a><\/span>, solamente voy a decir que me contact\u00f3 por las redes sociales y, contra todo pron\u00f3stico, especialmente el m\u00edo, logr\u00f3 que leyera sus maravillosas novelas, con el resultado que conocemos. Y tengo que decir que esto ocurri\u00f3 porque ella supo claramente que <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/11579-alfaguara\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Alfaguara<\/a><\/span> es un cat\u00e1logo perfecto para publicar sus libros; supo entender ese cat\u00e1logo y supo esperar nuestra lectura y nuestra decisi\u00f3n de incorporarla a nuestra casa editorial. Es una alegr\u00eda y un orgullo ofrecerles ahora en el <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/mapa-de-las-lenguas-2023\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Mapa de las Lenguas<\/a><\/span> su novela <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><em><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/tematicas\/286279-ebook-miramar-9789877388688\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Miramar<\/a><\/em><\/span>, un libro que se disfruta en cada p\u00e1rrafo y que logra permanecer en la memoria de los lectores con el brillo de los recuerdos m\u00e1s profundos.<br \/><br \/><\/p><p><strong>Julieta Obedman: Tus dos novelas, publicadas ambas por Alfaguara (<span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><em><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/tematicas\/164547-ebook-la-ruta-de-los-hospitales-9789877385489\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">La ruta de los hospitales<\/a><\/em><\/span>\u00a0y <em>Miramar<\/em>), abrevan en la literatura de lo cercano, lo familiar, lo personal. En <em>La ruta de los hospitales<\/em> el personaje central es la madre y en <em>Miramar,<\/em> el padre. \u00bfConsider\u00e1s que podr\u00edas escribir libros en los que lo cercano no fuera el tema?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Gloria Peirano:<\/strong> S\u00ed, aunque de alguna forma pienso que lo cercano, como experiencia, siempre est\u00e1 presente en la escritura. Pero habr\u00eda grados, distancias. Me interesa en este momento explorar qu\u00e9 puedo escribir en un grado de distancia mayor a lo cercano, a lo personal, usando materiales emocionales de canteras laterales. Se me viene a la cabeza el t\u00edtulo de un hermoso libro de <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/3776-richard-yates\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Richard Yates<\/a><\/span>, <em>Once tipos de soledad.<\/em> \u00bfOnce tipos de distancia de lo cercano? Como si, de alguna manera, se pudiera clasificar, catalogar, el arco que va desde lo \u00edntimo hasta lo \u00e9xtimo. Precisamente, me interesa reflexionar sobre este punto ahora. \u00bfQu\u00e9 hace mi escritura con esa distancia? \u00bfC\u00f3mo encarna en novela? \u00bfC\u00f3mo es la ingenier\u00eda de una novela en el grado m\u00e1s lejano de esa soledad? Ando por ah\u00ed, en ese 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Obedman: En <em>La ruta de los hospitales<\/em> decidiste usar una muy poco frecuentada, y muy eficaz y sorprendente, segunda persona, \u00bfpor qu\u00e9?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/2938-gloria-peirano\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Gloria Peirano<\/a><\/span>:<\/strong> La decisi\u00f3n de la segunda persona en <em>La ruta de los hospitales<\/em> entiendo que es central. Es curioso, porque lo que puedo decir sobre esto, me lo han dicho otros. Las novelas permanecen un poco opacas para m\u00ed, resguardan un secreto, algo as\u00ed. Recibo con much\u00edsima gratitud las lecturas, porque cuando tocan el proceso de escritura, me aclaran, me permiten identificar el recurso, el efecto del recurso, para pr\u00f3ximas escrituras. La segunda persona de <em>La ruta de los hospitales<\/em> es el modo que encontr\u00e9 de escribir realmente esa novela. Me at\u00e9, me anud\u00e9 a esa voz, la segu\u00ed. No es la voz de mi madre, no es autobiogr\u00e1fico, sino que es una voz creada especialmente para esa novela. Conoce el pasado y el porvenir, como un or\u00e1culo, eso me permiti\u00f3 los juegos temporales, que me interesan mucho. Capas temporales como un magma, un ir y venir, pero es la voz la que lo permite. Entiendo que una primera persona o una tercera persona no hubieran permitido la construcci\u00f3n de <em>La ruta de los hospitales<\/em> tal como es: le debo mucho a esa segunda persona. Esa deuda es preciosa, la deuda con lo formal es un diamante para m\u00ed, cuando logro encontrarlo. Porque una novela viene a ser un acontecimiento de lenguaje. Y encontrar el modo del acontecimiento es muy dif\u00edcil. A veces es directo, a veces se necesita tiempo de maceraci\u00f3n, silencio para escribir, un silencio que escribe, que va acerc\u00e1ndose, mientras camino por la calle o cocino o subo una escalera, y ah\u00ed estoy escribiendo. Trabaj\u00e9 mucho con esa segunda persona, tambi\u00e9n. Pod\u00e9 la repetici\u00f3n del imperativo: mirame, escuchame, decime. Trat\u00e9 de que el recurso no se volviera golosina, porque cuando una da con una voz, ah\u00ed aparece otro riesgo, el del goce de la escritura, no el del placer.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Julieta Obedman:<span style=\\\"white-space: pre;\\\"> <\/span>En <em>Miramar<\/em>, en cambio, usas una tercera persona e idas y vueltas en el tiempo, entre un pasado que refleja la infancia y un presente que se ocupa de esa nena ahora adulta. \u00bfNunca consideraste que podr\u00edas haber escrito <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><em><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/tematicas\/286279-ebook-miramar-9789877388688\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Miramar<\/a><\/em><\/span>\u00a0en segunda persona, cambiando a la madre por el padre?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Gloria Peirano:<\/strong> Qu\u00e9 pregunta hermosa, Julieta. La primera versi\u00f3n de <em>Miramar,<\/em> los primeros cap\u00edtulos, est\u00e1n en tercera persona. No, no pens\u00e9 en una segunda. Me hac\u00e9s pensar en qui\u00e9n le hablar\u00eda a qui\u00e9n. \u00bfEl padre a la hija? \u00bfLa hija a la amante del padre? \u00bfC\u00f3mo podr\u00eda construir los espacios (la casa de Miramar, por ejemplo) desde la mirada de una segunda persona? Tal vez podr\u00eda hablar la casa. \u00bfY qu\u00e9 dir\u00eda la casa? De hecho, habla bastante esa casa de Miramar, pero no tiene voz, es hablada, es recorrida en las geolog\u00edas temporales. Me hac\u00e9s acordar este fragmento de Escribir de Marguerite Duras: \u00abEsta casa, esta casa es el lugar de la soledad, sin embargo da a una calle, a una plaza, a un estanque muy antiguo, al grupo escolar del pueblo. Cuando el estanque est\u00e1 helado, hay ni\u00f1os que vienen a patinar y me impiden trabajar. Les dejo hacer. Los vigilo. Todas las mujeres que han tenido hijos vigilan a esos ni\u00f1os, desobedientes, locos, como todos los ni\u00f1os. Pero, qu\u00e9 miedo, cada vez, el peor de los miedos. Y qu\u00e9 amor\u00bb. Me quedo pensando.<\/p><p><strong>Julieta Obedman: Sos autora tambi\u00e9n de guiones de cine; en esa bell\u00edsima pel\u00edcula que es <span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.filmaffinity.com\/es\/film573877.html\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\"><em>El piso del viento<\/em><\/a><\/span>, creo detectar cierta continuidad con tus libros porque el recurso es exponer la intimidad de lo que les pasa a los visitantes de la casa cuando la conocen. \u00bfEs la intimidad un tema central para vos y tu escritura?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Gloria Peirano:<\/strong> S\u00ed, la intimidad de los otros me interesa mucho. Lo que no conocemos de los otros, que es pr\u00e1cticamente todo. Incluso de los otros m\u00e1s cercanos. Es imposible meterse dentro de otro, y esa imposibilidad me fascina. Tal vez por eso una novelista es una gran observadora. Y una gran can\u00edbal. Son fr\u00e1giles los otros. Eso trat\u00e9 de plasmar en el guion de <em>El piso del viento.<\/em> Con las pel\u00edculas, trato de pensar en un principio po\u00e9tico, una frase que funcione como hilo invisible, que aglutine la narraci\u00f3n como fragmentos a un im\u00e1n. Es un procedimiento muy diferente al de la escritura. En <em>El piso del viento<\/em>, la intimidad me interesa como la fragilidad que podr\u00eda aparecer si se filmara a personas que recorren un espacio desconocido, vac\u00edo, blanco, que ser\u00e1 el espacio del futuro de una pareja. Fue la primera pel\u00edcula que dirig\u00ed, aprend\u00ed much\u00edsimo. En la escritura la imaginaci\u00f3n es un campo abierto, podemos inventarlo todo, pero en el cine se trabaja con materiales, lo que no est\u00e1 filmado no existe, el montaje es riguroso en ese sentido, se realiza sobre un determinado material que se encontr\u00f3 o no durante el rodaje. Y el montaje se parece a escribir, es lo que m\u00e1s me interesa del cine. Los personajes de <em>El piso del viento<\/em> se volvieron \u00edntimos, fue maravilloso. Se mostraron. Luego el montaje afianz\u00f3, ajust\u00f3, la idea de intimidad y de misterio de los otros.\u00a0<\/p><p><strong>Julieta Obedman: \u00bfQu\u00e9 estas escribiendo ahora?<\/strong><\/p><p><strong>Gloria Peirano:<\/strong> Estoy escribiendo una novela. Se llama <em>Las maravillas.<\/em> Siempre necesito el t\u00edtulo antes de escribirla, es un poco raro eso. No s\u00e9. Ya que esta entrevista es precisamente entre vos y yo, quiero decirte que cuando escribo, en el horizonte, est\u00e1 tu mirada. Tu lectura. No se escribe para una editora, en mi caso, se escribe con la editora cerca. Otra cercan\u00eda, otro grado de los once tipos de 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class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><strong>OTROS\u00a0CONTENIDOS DE INTER\u00c9S:<\/strong><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/mapa-de-las-lenguas-2023\/miramar-de-gloria-peirano\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">\u00abMiramar\u00bb, de Gloria Peirano: escribir en el jard\u00edn de Derek Jarman<\/a><\/span><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/mapa-de-las-lenguas-2023\/derroche-de-maria-sonia-cristoff\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">\u00abDerroche\u00bb, de Mar\u00eda Sonia Cristoff: la utop\u00eda como anhelo<\/a><\/span><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/mapa-de-las-lenguas-2022\/la-estirpe-de-carla-maliandi\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">\u00abLa estirpe\u00bb, de Carla Maliandi: la po\u00e9tica del derrotado<\/a><\/span><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/mapa-de-las-lenguas-2021\/selva-almada-no-es-un-rio\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Selva Almada: No es un r\u00edo<\/a><\/span><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/sylvia-plath-por-mariana-enriquez-mary-ventura-y-el-noveno-reino\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Sylvia Plath por Mariana Enr\u00edquez: la mujer que lo ha sido todo para todos<\/a><\/span><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><span style=\\\"text-decoration: underline;\\\"><a href=\\\"https:\/\/www.penguinlibros.com\/es\/revista-lengua\/literatura\/claudia-pineiro-el-tiempo-de-las-moscas-cynthia-edul\\\" target=\\\"_blank\\\" rel=\\\"noopener\\\">Claudia Pi\u00f1eiro: Muertes, mujeres y moscas<\/a><\/span><\/p><p class=\\\"MsoNormal\\\"><\/p><p 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10 minutos
Gloria Peirano. Crédito: Alejandra López.

Gloria Peirano. Crédito: Alejandra López.

A veces los escritores llegan a publicar sus libros de la manera más inverosímil. En el caso de Gloria Peirano, solamente voy a decir que me contactó por las redes sociales y, contra todo pronóstico, especialmente el mío, logró que leyera sus maravillosas novelas, con el resultado que conocemos. Y tengo que decir que esto ocurrió porque ella supo claramente que Alfaguara es un catálogo perfecto para publicar sus libros; supo entender ese catálogo y supo esperar nuestra lectura y nuestra decisión de incorporarla a nuestra casa editorial. Es una alegría y un orgullo ofrecerles ahora en el Mapa de las Lenguas su novela Miramar, un libro que se disfruta en cada párrafo y que logra permanecer en la memoria de los lectores con el brillo de los recuerdos más profundos.

Julieta Obedman: Tus dos novelas, publicadas ambas por Alfaguara (La ruta de los hospitales y Miramar), abrevan en la literatura de lo cercano, lo familiar, lo personal. En La ruta de los hospitales el personaje central es la madre y en Miramar, el padre. ¿Considerás que podrías escribir libros en los que lo cercano no fuera el tema?

Gloria Peirano: Sí, aunque de alguna forma pienso que lo cercano, como experiencia, siempre está presente en la escritura. Pero habría grados, distancias. Me interesa en este momento explorar qué puedo escribir en un grado de distancia mayor a lo cercano, a lo personal, usando materiales emocionales de canteras laterales. Se me viene a la cabeza el título de un hermoso libro de Richard Yates, Once tipos de soledad. ¿Once tipos de distancia de lo cercano? Como si, de alguna manera, se pudiera clasificar, catalogar, el arco que va desde lo íntimo hasta lo éxtimo. Precisamente, me interesa reflexionar sobre este punto ahora. ¿Qué hace mi escritura con esa distancia? ¿Cómo encarna en novela? ¿Cómo es la ingeniería de una novela en el grado más lejano de esa soledad? Ando por ahí, en ese rumbo.

Julieta Obedman: En La ruta de los hospitales decidiste usar una muy poco frecuentada, y muy eficaz y sorprendente, segunda persona, ¿por qué?

Gloria Peirano: La decisión de la segunda persona en La ruta de los hospitales entiendo que es central. Es curioso, porque lo que puedo decir sobre esto, me lo han dicho otros. Las novelas permanecen un poco opacas para mí, resguardan un secreto, algo así. Recibo con muchísima gratitud las lecturas, porque cuando tocan el proceso de escritura, me aclaran, me permiten identificar el recurso, el efecto del recurso, para próximas escrituras. La segunda persona de La ruta de los hospitales es el modo que encontré de escribir realmente esa novela. Me até, me anudé a esa voz, la seguí. No es la voz de mi madre, no es autobiográfico, sino que es una voz creada especialmente para esa novela. Conoce el pasado y el porvenir, como un oráculo, eso me permitió los juegos temporales, que me interesan mucho. Capas temporales como un magma, un ir y venir, pero es la voz la que lo permite. Entiendo que una primera persona o una tercera persona no hubieran permitido la construcción de La ruta de los hospitales tal como es: le debo mucho a esa segunda persona. Esa deuda es preciosa, la deuda con lo formal es un diamante para mí, cuando logro encontrarlo. Porque una novela viene a ser un acontecimiento de lenguaje. Y encontrar el modo del acontecimiento es muy difícil. A veces es directo, a veces se necesita tiempo de maceración, silencio para escribir, un silencio que escribe, que va acercándose, mientras camino por la calle o cocino o subo una escalera, y ahí estoy escribiendo. Trabajé mucho con esa segunda persona, también. Podé la repetición del imperativo: mirame, escuchame, decime. Traté de que el recurso no se volviera golosina, porque cuando una da con una voz, ahí aparece otro riesgo, el del goce de la escritura, no el del placer. 

Julieta Obedman: En Miramar, en cambio, usas una tercera persona e idas y vueltas en el tiempo, entre un pasado que refleja la infancia y un presente que se ocupa de esa nena ahora adulta. ¿Nunca consideraste que podrías haber escrito Miramar en segunda persona, cambiando a la madre por el padre?

Gloria Peirano: Qué pregunta hermosa, Julieta. La primera versión de Miramar, los primeros capítulos, están en tercera persona. No, no pensé en una segunda. Me hacés pensar en quién le hablaría a quién. ¿El padre a la hija? ¿La hija a la amante del padre? ¿Cómo podría construir los espacios (la casa de Miramar, por ejemplo) desde la mirada de una segunda persona? Tal vez podría hablar la casa. ¿Y qué diría la casa? De hecho, habla bastante esa casa de Miramar, pero no tiene voz, es hablada, es recorrida en las geologías temporales. Me hacés acordar este fragmento de Escribir de Marguerite Duras: «Esta casa, esta casa es el lugar de la soledad, sin embargo da a una calle, a una plaza, a un estanque muy antiguo, al grupo escolar del pueblo. Cuando el estanque está helado, hay niños que vienen a patinar y me impiden trabajar. Les dejo hacer. Los vigilo. Todas las mujeres que han tenido hijos vigilan a esos niños, desobedientes, locos, como todos los niños. Pero, qué miedo, cada vez, el peor de los miedos. Y qué amor». Me quedo pensando.

Julieta Obedman: Sos autora también de guiones de cine; en esa bellísima película que es El piso del viento, creo detectar cierta continuidad con tus libros porque el recurso es exponer la intimidad de lo que les pasa a los visitantes de la casa cuando la conocen. ¿Es la intimidad un tema central para vos y tu escritura?

Gloria Peirano: Sí, la intimidad de los otros me interesa mucho. Lo que no conocemos de los otros, que es prácticamente todo. Incluso de los otros más cercanos. Es imposible meterse dentro de otro, y esa imposibilidad me fascina. Tal vez por eso una novelista es una gran observadora. Y una gran caníbal. Son frágiles los otros. Eso traté de plasmar en el guion de El piso del viento. Con las películas, trato de pensar en un principio poético, una frase que funcione como hilo invisible, que aglutine la narración como fragmentos a un imán. Es un procedimiento muy diferente al de la escritura. En El piso del viento, la intimidad me interesa como la fragilidad que podría aparecer si se filmara a personas que recorren un espacio desconocido, vacío, blanco, que será el espacio del futuro de una pareja. Fue la primera película que dirigí, aprendí muchísimo. En la escritura la imaginación es un campo abierto, podemos inventarlo todo, pero en el cine se trabaja con materiales, lo que no está filmado no existe, el montaje es riguroso en ese sentido, se realiza sobre un determinado material que se encontró o no durante el rodaje. Y el montaje se parece a escribir, es lo que más me interesa del cine. Los personajes de El piso del viento se volvieron íntimos, fue maravilloso. Se mostraron. Luego el montaje afianzó, ajustó, la idea de intimidad y de misterio de los otros. 

Julieta Obedman: ¿Qué estas escribiendo ahora?

Gloria Peirano: Estoy escribiendo una novela. Se llama Las maravillas. Siempre necesito el título antes de escribirla, es un poco raro eso. No sé. Ya que esta entrevista es precisamente entre vos y yo, quiero decirte que cuando escribo, en el horizonte, está tu mirada. Tu lectura. No se escribe para una editora, en mi caso, se escribe con la editora cerca. Otra cercanía, otro grado de los once tipos de soledad.

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